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Re: The subject line? I disagree (obviously. ) Isaac Send a noteboard - 01/11/2011 12:29:50 AM
Which is to say, never. Put another way, the Tea Party wants to "fix" government in the same sense that OWSers want to "fix" corporate Americas government (the same sense that vets "fix" broken legged horses.) Guess which position is flirting with treason. :whistle: Hint: I know of no incumbent governor running for president by telling OWS rallies they should assault corporate executives. ;) There is ONE other difference between the Tea Party and OWS: Polling shows the latter is twice as popular as the former. :P

Can't think of any governors of any party telling people to do that, unless you're knocking Perry about the alleged implied lynching comment... and I think a poll, from Oct 9th, is a tad ridiculous, considering the Tea parties been being blitzed by the MSM for 2 years now and the OWS crowd had barely got their tents pitched at the time of this poll. It was, IIRC, roughly the time the other places started sprouting OWS parallels and the media began reporting anything negative about them... got a more recent one, last week or so?

If you mean the poll, then, yes, I agree that comparing the popularity of a relatively new group of demonstrators to that of one that is several years old and has already strongly influenced a national election is apples and oranges. I again indulged my habit of trolling trolls, and should not have.


Trzaska is not a troll, and you shouldn't imply as much. All things are case by case, most of our population approves of fervent but peaceful demonstrators and does not hold much fondness for wall street, as opposed to say, reactions to Westboro BC protesting Military Funerals. Of course initially approval was high when people's knowledge was very casual, a poll on "Do you think the government wastes money?" would turn up stupid high numbers and mean exactly nothing too.

Yes, I was most definitely referring to Perry proudly telling a Tea Party crowd "we" would "do" things to the Fed Chair if he came to TX; the fact that Perry left those undefined but clearly negative ACTIONS vague does not mean he was calling for a lynching or any other specific act, but it DOES mean he was (successfully) currying favor with Tea Partiers by saying he would do unpleasant things to a member of the federal government. I mean, really, think about it: Suppose Perry wins the election, is inaugurated President and then convenes a conference with his economic advisors to address the countrys dire economic situation. Should the incumbent Fed Chairman wear a bullet proof vest to that meeting, or give Perry the benefit of a doubt and only expect a punch in the face?


You find Perry's remarks offensive because he made them, and you strongly dislike him, got it.

It is instructive to see how the same people embrace ignorant, self indulgent, directionless radical rabble with whom they sympathize as enthusiastically as they condemn ignorant, self indulgent, directionless radical rabble of a different flavor.

Images of stones, glass houses, pots, and kettles come to mind :P

Meh. I am not really on the OWS bandwagon simply because they ARE so directionless and counterproductive. It may be true that if you are not angry you are not paying attention, but it is not necessarily true that if you ARE angry you ARE paying attention. I sympathize with many of the OWSers greivances but, to the very limited extent they have proposed purported "solutions," those rarely seem worthy of that name. As oft discussed, the factors I, along with the OWSers, criticize foster the widespread alienation manifesting in both OWS and the Tea Party, but in neither case does that make alienation valid, legitimate or constructive: It is a symptom of the deeper disease, and should never be mistaken for a cure.


Common sense explains things quite easily, things suck right now, and people think things suck even more than they do, thus they assume there is something wrong with the system. A reasonable conclusion, if you're car starts getting crappy mileage and stalling out, odds are good your car needs repairs, or you need a new car. If you are not a mechanic, you are pretty much limited to wild ass guesses, all the more so if your car is fully of lots of complex junk and circuit boards, many of which are ad hoc semi-compatible jury-rigged devices... which accurately sums of the US government, the Tea Party, the OWS, and 99% of the population... where the remaining 1% are mostly people with just sufficient electrical or mechanical skills to view the car and either shudder at the mess, be amazed it works at all, or recognize some fairly impressive designs... likely some combination of all of the above, which remains my own perspective on things. The Tea Party at least has a workable solution, if not necessarily an ideal or pragmatic one... leave the car in a ditch, go buy a new and simpler car.

Occupy Wall Street has not (to my knowledge) suggested tearing down the Constitution, but do seem to want to tear down corporate America every bit as much as the Tea Party wants to tear down the federal government (and while we can debate that and have, I have yet to hear anyone from the Tea Party say a single positive word about any aspect of the federal government;


Probably because you never listen to them except for nasty soundbites from those who dislike them. Most of those I know (and I know many) generally just want the federal government to do less, not cease to function, and are not in the habit of praising the various good things it does anymore than you are of praising Perry or Bush. Alternatively, I have actually complimented both Clinton and Obama, sincerely, as I don't go in for that black/white or ad hominem crap. Thus the glass/stone/pot/kettle remark, I don't happen to have an issue with either the Tea or OWS crowds, even how unorganized they, as I know an awful lot about mobilizing and organizing political stuff and how damn hard it is, I have many criticisms of both groups, more of OWS because I also want to criticize their local organization on top of their politics and naiveté, as the soldier in me wants to rip them up for keeping such a reckless and shoddy camp. No, my issue is with you, for basically accusing both groups of behavior you yourself regularly display. To me the majority of these OWSers are simply young adults doing what young adults always do, feeling pissed off, screwed, and abused and having a very unclear idea of who they should be blaming and how the matter should be rectified, some of them have simply picked wall street. They do deserve a touch of ridicule, and its could to get it, thickens the skin and makes people focus and apply reason to sharpen their message, but like the Tea parties, they do not deserve demonetization and you have demonized the Tea Parties here, many times.

I wonder how THEY expect to preserve the Constitution while crippling its institutions.) That kind of vague extremist rage is not helpful, however understandable, and abolishing American business is no more in Americas interest than is abolishing American government. Regulation and accountability are one thing, moratoria quite another. What I have seen of both the Tea Party and OWS allows no middle road; there does not seem to be any degree of federal power the former would accept, let alone value, or any degree of business power the latter would. From my perspective that the middle class should use Big Business as a check on Big Government, and vice versa, both groups are an obstacle, because each of them would, if permitted, eliminate the principal balance to the others favorite target.


This is all very rational, and I'd accept it as such if you'd not had so very many posts over the years that aren't middle of the road. I don't know if maybe you've had a recent epiphany or something, but it is hard to take such comments seriously coming from you when you so often favor giving certain groups powerful tools to beat off existing checks or the introduction to new checks where there is clear unbalance. I've never heard you praise a conservative politician or ideology unless they were doing something that knocked the right.

Oh, and I WILL respond to your last NB, I have just been a bit preoccupied lately with trying to pass my driving test, stay current (and make the homework deadlines) for the online Intro to AI class and prepare for the Norwegian course I start tomorrow evening. ;)


I confess to being curious what the "AI" stands for there, but take your time.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Great visual summary of the differences between the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street - 31/10/2011 02:59:18 PM 807 Views
I hear OSWers suggest dumping the Constitution about as often as Tea Partiers suggest fixing govt. - 31/10/2011 08:01:39 PM 605 Views
That's a touch questionable - 31/10/2011 09:49:09 PM 553 Views
The subject line? I disagree (obviously. ) - 31/10/2011 11:23:57 PM 712 Views
Re: The subject line? I disagree (obviously. ) - 01/11/2011 12:29:50 AM 701 Views
Re: The subject line? I disagree (obviously. ) - 11/11/2011 08:29:52 AM 732 Views
I think that this image actually is the best- short and to the point - 01/11/2011 01:24:23 AM 589 Views
LIKE *NM* - 01/11/2011 01:46:22 AM 178 Views
Very, very good. *NM* - 01/11/2011 12:01:17 PM 192 Views
I like that one. *NM* - 01/11/2011 12:54:45 PM 198 Views
I disagree. - 03/11/2011 08:44:54 PM 486 Views

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