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Re: Car Maitenance ... everynametaken Send a noteboard - 18/01/2012 05:12:13 AM
so I have a 2002 Wrangler with 103,000 miles on it. I brought it into the local dealer in Queens back in may (at 99,000 miles) for oil change/inspection etc ... they said ...

Well, you need this this and this ...


For a 2002 model vehicle most of the major maintenance is due - spark plugs (100,000 mile plugs are pretty typical after the late 90s), coolant flush (100,000 mile coolants was pretty typical after the late 90s), plus maybe a trans fluid flush (this can very from every 30,000 to 100,000 miles depending on the transmission). In addition most dealers will try to up sell more work if it is needed. It is how mechanics make a large chunk of their living, by telling you all the things that are wrong or questionable that you probably never notice or think about. In the case of your control arms below, you probably just got used to the noise and feel of the worn out bushings but mechanics look at them or hear them and know they are worn.

in this case they replaced the front brakes, did something to the rear brakes, and some other things, totaling 1300$


Replaced the front pads most likely and possibly refaced (or replaced) the front rotors. They also probably adjusted the rear drums if the vehicle had rear drum brakes. Rear brakes have auto adjusters but they aren't always the most efficient mechanism for adjustment and adjusting by hand is pretty common on a brake inspection.

So ... now to today, going in for my discount oil change (They gave me a coupon for oil changes :| ), and after 3 hours of waiting ... they call me up and say ...

Well, you need this this and this ...

what they want to do is:

- flush power steering,


Mheh, there is a big movement today, especially in independent shops to do flushes. This is because a lot of places just lease the machine and then make a killing off the sales because the machines have become fast at what they do and the fluid cost would be the same if they did it the old way which is manually evacuate the steering fluid (or drain/evacuate whatever fluid) and refill and bleed by hand. Don't misunderstand, I don't think they are a scam but sometimes they may not be needed or even recommended. The best bet is to reference the maintenance scheduling in your owner's manual to be sure. For example, I don't ever remember in my years as a Chevy/GM mechanic ever seeing a schedule for changing the power steering fluid. This could just be a recommended mileage by the maker of the flushing kit/machine.

- flush brake fluids,


See above, I never have seen a recommended flushing schedule for the brake fluid on a vehicle with the exception of high performance sports cars. Typically you would only need to flush brake fluid if it became contaminated at some point. Again, check the owner's manual but I don't see a need to do this. You can check the brake fluid for contamination by looking into the Master Cylinder, contaminated fluid will have moisture in it or be cloudy looking and possibly be somewhat black.

- remove corrosion off the battery terminals,


Mheh. It depends how bad the corrosion is. If you want to save a few bucks and do it yourself then go to the auto parts store and ask for a wire brush for battery posts or a battery post cleaner. Make a mixture of baking soda and water. Pour a little of the solution over the terminals/battery connections to neutralize the acid. Then disconnect the terminals and scrub them with the brush and the remaining solution and then rinse them with water. You can then also use some grease from the auto parts store and reconnect them. The grease will help protect them from corrosion and help ensure a good connection. Just ask the auto parts store for the correct grease and they will help you find it. Be aware, wear gloves and and old shirt in case any of the corrosion gets on your skin/clothes. It is highly corrosive and irritating. Wash your skin immediately with water if contact is made, a little more baking soda wouldn't hurt either.

- replace the control arms


Your SOL. The bushings wear on the control arms over time causing a clunking and possibly eventual alignment issues/tire wear. And yeah, they are typically somewhat expensive although mostly due to labor - probably 1 hour each arm plus an alignment and a .5 hour diagnosis plus anywhere from one hundred to two hundred per arm in parts cost.

- coolant service


Again, see above - at 100,000 miles if the coolant hasn't been serviced previously then it is due (for 100,000 mile coolant). If you have 30,000 or 50,000 mile coolant and you are over 100,000 miles then you are obviously way overdue.

- rotate the tires


A good rule of thumb is every two oil changes. I say this because typically most people still need their oil changed every 3,000 to 4,000 miles but telling people to get their tires rotated every 5,000 to 7,000 miles is likely to be forgotten. By just telling people to do it every two oil changes they only need remember if they had it done last oil change and if not then they know they are due. Funny, in the dealerships this was the one thing that was affordable and could really result in money savings by extending tire life but yet it was the one thing nobody ever wanted to pay the dang $20 for. Jesus, I made a lot of money off "alignment problems" and "suspension noise" because fools would refuse to pay the money and have their tires rotated on time resulting in extreme cuffing of the tread which then caused noise and pulling.

-replace the drive belt. ... 1800$ total (the control arms were 950$ of that ...)


Depends on the drive belt. If it is real noisy then the only way to fix a noisy belt is to change it. If it isn't noisy and it isn't fraying, loose or ripped anywhere then you can probably skip it for now if money is tight. Sometimes belts are pretty easy to change yourself and sometimes not, it just depends on how close everything is to the front or the side of the vehicle. Some manufacturers route the belt between motor or trans mounts to and then it can become confusing and take some extra work like loosening a mount.

Is this just how oil changes are now a days ... you go in thinking you only need a simple procedure, and you come out wondering if the cars going to flip over and die next time you turn the wheel. I declined all their options ... the main reason involving the brake fluids, which I'm pretty sure they flushed and replaced back when they replaced the brakes ... (that is standard procedure?) ...


No, per my response above brake fluid is typically only flushed if there is contamination. Since the lines are never opened and the fluid exposed during a pad/rotor replacement then there should be no contamination.

Anyway, how necessary is this selection of flushes and parts replacement, and why so expensive, 160$ to replace power steering fluid? 60$ to polish the battery terminals?


Depends on what they are changing a labor hour. A half hour labor for cleaning up the battery terminals is normal. You live in NYC, right? I imagine $120 per labor hour is what labor is there so then $60 is actually fair. The $160 for the p/s flush probably also includes fees for the disposal of the old fluid and misc. shop supplies like brake cleaner to clean off the vehicle any spilled fluid when connecting and disconnecting the machine as well as rags plus parts (several quarts of fluid) and any additives they might add in as well as any detergent they may run through as part of the cleaning. Throw in an hour of labor (although in the case of flushes it is usually a cheaper flat fee rather than an actual hour of labor time) - you can get up to $160 real quick.
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