No, the conditional form has no relation to the optative
Tom Send a noteboard - 28/04/2012 02:23:00 PM
Rather, I should say that there is no evidence I have seen that the Greek optative resulted from a similar process, though theoretically the origin of the optative could be similar. Romance language conditional moods derive from the use of the infinitive and habere as an auxiliary verb in vulgar Latin of the late Empire. The shortening of the forms is what produces the "i", not a link to the Greek optative (though the Greek optative might theoretically have formed as the result of some shortened stem verb plus a form of ειμι or ιημι, though the root verb form used is a stem, rather than a variable and conjugated form or an infinitive - PERHAPS it was a participle form with ιημι).
As for only Greek and Sanskrit having an optative, I think you are confusing constructions that have optative meaning with an optative conjugation. All languages can identify a sentence as an optative sentence in certain instances in terms of meaning or intent, but hardly any languages have a special construction to set off an optative (most of them being agglutinative languages with no proper "conjugations" to speak of, unlike Indo-European and Semitic languages that conjugate verbs). The only conjugated languages with an optative conjugation that I am aware of are Greek and Sanskrit, and both drop out of the language in a hurry so that level of distinction was obviously not needed in conversation. Romanian doesn't have an optative conjugation in that sense.
I read the Smyth paragraph you cited and now understand what he's saying - he's talking about the vowel length and accent being identical rather than the endings. I still find him maddening generally in that he makes authoritative statements but we don't get citations to longer works - ever.
As for only Greek and Sanskrit having an optative, I think you are confusing constructions that have optative meaning with an optative conjugation. All languages can identify a sentence as an optative sentence in certain instances in terms of meaning or intent, but hardly any languages have a special construction to set off an optative (most of them being agglutinative languages with no proper "conjugations" to speak of, unlike Indo-European and Semitic languages that conjugate verbs). The only conjugated languages with an optative conjugation that I am aware of are Greek and Sanskrit, and both drop out of the language in a hurry so that level of distinction was obviously not needed in conversation. Romanian doesn't have an optative conjugation in that sense.
I read the Smyth paragraph you cited and now understand what he's saying - he's talking about the vowel length and accent being identical rather than the endings. I still find him maddening generally in that he makes authoritative statements but we don't get citations to longer works - ever.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
An article on grammar that makes me want to start a slow movie clap.
- 26/04/2012 12:26:21 AM
748 Views
I almost completely agree with them.
- 26/04/2012 02:38:06 AM
478 Views
Misusing "Literally" is one of the few grammar issues that actually bothers me.
- 26/04/2012 05:18:21 AM
403 Views
I'm with you on all points. Furthermore, misuse of "literally" isn't a grammar issue at all.
- 26/04/2012 07:07:11 PM
395 Views
I never did get that fuss about "literally".
- 26/04/2012 08:12:14 PM
452 Views
Your example is slightly different from e.g. "My blood was literally boiling". *NM*
- 27/04/2012 02:13:05 PM
167 Views
I used the article's example. But I don't see why your example is any different in that regard. *NM*
- 27/04/2012 07:03:03 PM
147 Views
Yeah, literally in hyperbole doesn't bother me. But I also don't mind when people mock its usage. *NM*
- 27/04/2012 08:21:05 PM
146 Views
You clearly need to watch more English football coverage, Sky in particular.
- 28/04/2012 02:01:11 PM
428 Views
They provide the wrong rationale for good/well
- 26/04/2012 02:55:10 AM
500 Views
Hopefully you be right... hm, I don't know about that one.
- 26/04/2012 08:22:05 PM
348 Views
- 26/04/2012 08:22:05 PM
348 Views
Sometimes, I do actually use that construction when speaking to others near me
- 26/04/2012 09:10:02 PM
357 Views
If I'm not mistaken, the Future Indicative evolved from and replaced some of the Subjunctive.
- 27/04/2012 09:44:33 PM
460 Views
There was never an optative in recorded Latin or later Romance languages.
- 27/04/2012 09:58:11 PM
356 Views
It's not Ojala which makes me think there's a connection between the Conditional and Optative
- 28/04/2012 04:28:35 AM
420 Views
No, the conditional form has no relation to the optative
- 28/04/2012 02:23:00 PM
396 Views
