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I do not consider it directly responsible, no. Joel Send a noteboard - 10/08/2012 12:55:40 AM
How do we know that Giffords saying, "I am afraid of getting shot," didn't lead to the shooting? Wouldn't that be just as likely to inspire a crazed gunman as crosshairs on a map?

I pretend no comprehension of insanity, but would not think so, and Palin putting crosshairs on her district still prompted Giffords' comment, so the source would be unchanged. Regardless, what would be the "logic"? A crazed liberal partisan shooting one of their own representatives to substantiate criticism of Palin?

I'm not as knowledgeable about this particular incident as I could be. I definitely remember it happening, but it's been awhile, and I haven't followed up on it much.

So speaking in a hypothetical sense rather than specifically, hearing a relatively-famous person say, "I am afraid of being shot," seems like enough to set-up a shooting spree as putting crosshairs on a map. But chances are it's something else, or really nothing at all.

It doesn't have to be partisan at all. He doesn't have to be a conservative nutjob obeying "orders" from his leaders or "a crazed liberal partisan shooting one of their own representatives to substantiate criticism of Palin." It could be as simple and incomprehensible as John Lennon's death.

It is hard to be sure; Loughner has been suspiciously tight lipped throughout (he shouted, "I plead the Fifth!" even as bystanders tackled him after the shooting.) Either way, if someone says they fear being shot IN RESPONSE TO someone putting a crosshairs on their area of residence, then someone hears that and shoots them, the ultimate (if indirect) cause remains those crosshairs.

As for the rest... yeah. I agree with a lot, disagree with a lot. Rhetoric is getting heated. It should be toned back on both sides. But to consider it directly responsible for this shooting is unwarranted, IMO.

Only a nutjob could shoot someone based on Palins imagery (and there is no evidence either way about whether Loughner ever saw it.) However, everyone knows many such nutjobs exist, so national leaders offering them triggers is dangerously irresponsible. When one knows a powder keg exists, ignores that and lights a match anyway, is the explosion the powder kegs fault or the match-lighters? At the very least that is not the kind of reckless judgement I want running my country.

Basically, I completely disagree with the SCOTUS Brandenburg v. OH ruling (unanimously) reversing the core of its Schenk v. USA ruling. Brandenburgs specifics only reinforce that feeling. Actions, including speech, have consequences; even if disregarding that is legal, it is unacceptable in national leaders.
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This message last edited by Joel on 10/08/2012 at 12:58:45 AM
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Mosque Burned in Missouri ; Sikh Temple attacked...I hope this doesnt encourage copycats..... - 06/08/2012 09:05:00 PM 791 Views
Dreadful stuff. - 06/08/2012 11:51:11 PM 397 Views
It is heart breaking. - 07/08/2012 12:51:49 AM 425 Views
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Government cannot surveill/infiltrate/arrest violent white supremacists: That would be racist. - 08/08/2012 08:11:24 PM 440 Views
Joel Joel Joel, I see they still haven't found a cure for crazy. - 08/08/2012 08:39:04 PM 355 Views
Giffords made the allegation against Palin; feel free to tell her she was NOT subsequently shot. - 09/08/2012 01:33:50 AM 577 Views
You're seriously blaming Palin for Loughner? That's so absurdly debunked at every level *NM* - 09/08/2012 02:30:21 AM 201 Views
Again, I believe Gabrielle Giffords made that connection, about a year before it was proven valid. - 09/08/2012 02:50:10 AM 402 Views
Okay, that's bullshit - 09/08/2012 02:53:46 AM 437 Views
She suggested putting a crosshairs on her district endangered her life; that is now hard to dispute. - 09/08/2012 03:50:13 AM 392 Views
Easy to dispute. Did Loughner claim to have seen it? Did Christian Bale cause Colorado? - 09/08/2012 05:47:59 AM 376 Views
Has Loughner said much of anything? Did Christian Bale put a target on CO? - 09/08/2012 06:11:17 AM 404 Views
Do you realize how crazy you sound? - 09/08/2012 10:31:16 PM 391 Views
I love how you and rt keep calling me (and, by extension, Giffords, whom I am quoting) crazy. - 09/08/2012 11:00:35 PM 453 Views
If the shoe fits Joel - 10/08/2012 12:11:44 AM 337 Views
"If the shoe fits" is precisely my point. - 10/08/2012 12:18:17 AM 502 Views
Did you lose all ability to make raitonal arguments while you were away? - 10/08/2012 01:21:08 AM 491 Views
No. - 10/08/2012 02:09:26 AM 499 Views
Yeah, you really are - 10/08/2012 02:27:25 AM 534 Views
I think the shooting in Norway unhinged him *NM* - 10/08/2012 04:17:29 AM 204 Views
It certainly seems that way - 10/08/2012 04:27:32 AM 419 Views
Does she claim now that Palin was responsible for the shooting? - 10/08/2012 04:15:50 AM 377 Views
You believe whatever fits your world view reggardless of facts - 09/08/2012 04:49:39 AM 375 Views
If you insist on blaming the victim, do it to her face. - 09/08/2012 06:09:45 AM 443 Views
To play a little Devil's Advocate: - 09/08/2012 07:39:40 PM 666 Views
How would that work? - 09/08/2012 10:25:25 PM 556 Views
Re: How would that work? - 10/08/2012 12:15:53 AM 570 Views
I do not consider it directly responsible, no. - 10/08/2012 12:55:40 AM 556 Views
By that argument Obama is trying to get Romney killed - 10/08/2012 04:28:38 AM 420 Views
I read on Twitter where they raised enough money to pay for rebuilding costs in two days - 10/08/2012 07:39:31 AM 377 Views
That is good. - 10/08/2012 12:20:15 PM 395 Views
*like* - 10/08/2012 02:51:26 PM 412 Views

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