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I strongly disagree. Joel Send a noteboard - 12/08/2012 05:11:52 AM
Because they're both equally ineffectual. During the US elections you've participated in, there has never been a third party candidate with a chance of winning. Not even a REMOTE chance of winning. When you voted for them, you wasted your chance at influencing the political process every bit as much as did someone who refused to vote. Realistically speaking, you have two choices. Even if you think they're both bad, one DOES match your beliefs and opinions on government better than the other. Doesn't it make more sense to wield your (admittedly slight) political power to help that guy than to throw your vote away?

This kind of thing has always bugged me.

Third parties cannot gain relevance without 1) building a base and 2) meeting the electoral threshold mandated for federal election funds and debate participation. In that respect, it is a pity the Reform Party (which met the critical 15% threshold in 1996) splintered into irrelevance, but such are the perils of building a party around a candidate rather than a platform. Meanwhile, third parties can and do elect candidates to state and local office. Not only does that build a loyal electorate through familiarity and a record of performance in office, but if the states are "laboratories of democracy," such local representatives today must necessarily be tomorrows national candidates. That is what so nauseates me about the Libertarians fawning over first Paul and now Gary Johnson, life-long Republican office holders who only turn to the Libertarians when the Republicans will not have them. Same deal with the Greens and Cynthia McKinney four years ago (though she had the added liability of being a paranoid bigot.)

Parties are built from electoral and then policy results, but the latter necessitates the former. America has a surprisingly strong history of such third parties in both the original GOP and the Progressives TR and later LaFollette led away from it when it became too indulgent of laissez-faire business. Both third parties achieved substantial policy results that endure to this day (though the Reform Partys failure to block the NAFTA and WTO, or at least hold them to the standards expected of US business, threatens the Progressives achievements.) At the very least, voting for a third party that represents ones views allows the ability to vote ones conscience when neither of the two major party candidates do so.

I do not expect any third party to do well nationally until/unless America has Instant Runoff Voting, but grass roots party organizing/voting can provide the necessary support to implement such laws by state referendum. The 1992 and 2000 elections have liberals and conservatives alike living in fear of the spoiler effect IRV eliminates. Both major parties know that well enough to unite in opposing IRV, but at the grass roots level major party supporters have a vested interest in such laws (e.g. preventing another Clinton elected with 42% of the popular vote, or Gore losing despite a popular majority.) The real traction can still only come from third party supporters who know their preferred parties can never gain national office without IRV. However, those so inclined will never consider it practical if NO ONE votes for third parties, ever.

Ultimately, if you feel neither major party represents you, you should vote for a third party that does; there are enough of them you can probably find one, but if nothing else you can write in your own name as protest vote. If you feel that is just "throwing your vote away," then you can choose the lesser of two evils in one of the major parties. Either way, there is NO excuse for not voting at all. All that means is that you are content to let others govern you without your input, or that you deny the legitimacy of any government not chosen by you alone. Neither position has any place in a representative democracy or republic.
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Paul Ryan is selected as Republican VP candidate - 11/08/2012 05:01:47 PM 1874 Views
Personally? No, I'm not voting Republican at all this year. - 11/08/2012 05:18:06 PM 893 Views
Ya know that narrative of the right getting further right is pretty ridicolous - 11/08/2012 06:43:44 PM 856 Views
it could possibly be the "all or nothing" budget fights and gay marriage among other things - 11/08/2012 08:19:11 PM 897 Views
Yeah, I forgot the Dems are very enlightened about gay marriage now for what? 2 Months? - 11/08/2012 08:59:17 PM 962 Views
+1 - Great post! *NM* - 12/08/2012 04:32:21 AM 531 Views
We're on a roll here Isaac. I agree with you again. - 12/08/2012 08:18:32 AM 895 Views
yet despite that, dems didn't put referenda and push bills discriminating against gay people - 12/08/2012 07:55:38 PM 973 Views
They certainly have, they've just done it less and less recently - 12/08/2012 09:39:53 PM 860 Views
Fred Phelps is 82 - 13/08/2012 01:28:01 AM 797 Views
So is Pat Robertson *NM* - 13/08/2012 02:41:28 AM 508 Views
They're not enlightened at all. - 21/08/2012 02:04:09 PM 1062 Views
Agreed, but ya'll continue doing it anyway. - 11/08/2012 08:24:09 PM 883 Views
Thank you for making sense. - 12/08/2012 08:01:53 AM 863 Views
voting third party is a good idea - 11/08/2012 08:15:41 PM 852 Views
I'm sorry, but anyone that votes for Obama after the past 3 and 1/2 years is a moron..... - 12/08/2012 03:30:47 AM 797 Views
If you are proud of not voting, please shut up: The adults have a country to run. - 12/08/2012 04:11:49 AM 828 Views
Candidates have to earn my vote - I'm not a slave like you to the 2 party system. - 12/08/2012 04:24:02 AM 959 Views
Who said anything about the two-party system? - 12/08/2012 04:29:36 AM 790 Views
No offense intended, but voting third party is as stupid as not voting. - 12/08/2012 04:42:28 AM 1045 Views
I strongly disagree. - 12/08/2012 05:11:52 AM 884 Views
as the saying goes "the lesser of two evils is still evil" - 12/08/2012 08:06:20 PM 881 Views
Nice asshatery. - 12/08/2012 07:56:57 AM 1034 Views
Wouldn't you love to have a "none of the above" option..... - 12/08/2012 03:36:54 PM 809 Views
Or you could use a PR system and act like responsible adults. *NM* - 12/08/2012 05:47:14 PM 420 Views
Oh dear. - 11/08/2012 06:26:07 PM 849 Views
I'm happy with it, I like Ryan - 11/08/2012 06:47:21 PM 868 Views
What a shock. - 11/08/2012 08:18:35 PM 1002 Views
Re: What a shock. - 11/08/2012 08:51:12 PM 972 Views
ryan isn't going to help rmoney win wisconsin - 11/08/2012 08:21:27 PM 972 Views
Picking Ryan was an olive branch to the GOP rank and file. - 11/08/2012 08:05:41 PM 1095 Views
definitely a bold pick but not going to help him enough in november - 11/08/2012 08:27:59 PM 912 Views
Who cares? He's hot. - 11/08/2012 11:53:42 PM 1065 Views
So are you a fan of David Cameron? - 12/08/2012 12:12:50 AM 729 Views
Lol. Nice one. *NM* - 12/08/2012 08:22:01 AM 466 Views
- 13/08/2012 03:31:38 PM 933 Views
Wonderful choice! Truly wonderful.....check the video. - 12/08/2012 03:22:48 AM 799 Views
Nice video. - 12/08/2012 06:52:59 PM 892 Views
Can you explain your fascination with Ryans ideas, please? - 13/08/2012 04:08:35 AM 854 Views
No, it doesn't change my opinion any - 12/08/2012 07:50:21 AM 975 Views
I hear even the DNC has rejected its TN Senate nominee. - 12/08/2012 05:46:37 PM 895 Views
Yes, they disavowed him - 12/08/2012 08:00:33 PM 891 Views
Does not work in the US - 13/08/2012 01:17:58 AM 844 Views
We do not need most of the populace to cast protest votes, only most voters. - 13/08/2012 01:33:41 AM 795 Views
Your distinction misses my greater point - 13/08/2012 01:51:26 AM 845 Views
*shrugs* Vote absentee then. - 13/08/2012 02:28:32 AM 876 Views
I was going to vote Romney anyway, so no, it doesn't change anything. - 12/08/2012 10:39:15 PM 874 Views
But I'm guessing you're glad with Ryan? Prefer him over the alternatives? Or not? - 12/08/2012 10:49:35 PM 1027 Views
I disagree - 13/08/2012 12:52:07 AM 895 Views
Bloomberg has imploded - 13/08/2012 07:12:56 PM 798 Views
Bloomberg has become a national laughingstock. - 13/08/2012 08:13:24 PM 885 Views
Not as much as either Obama or Romney, surely. - 13/08/2012 08:23:41 PM 873 Views
Makes sense for you. You are Romney's target audience. - 13/08/2012 01:19:26 PM 807 Views
What should Obama have done? - 13/08/2012 07:31:23 PM 844 Views
And how much of that do you expect from Romney? - 14/08/2012 10:21:33 AM 1170 Views
Certainly more than from Obama. - 16/08/2012 12:00:19 AM 788 Views
Mmm, Objectivism. Another reason for me to vote Obama. - 12/08/2012 11:00:34 PM 965 Views
But doesn't he say he detests Rand? - 12/08/2012 11:53:47 PM 713 Views
Link to audio of Paul Ryans address to The Atlas Society. - 13/08/2012 03:37:27 AM 1010 Views
Or you could have just read my response which posted prior to yours - 13/08/2012 01:45:07 PM 803 Views
Sorry, I completely missed your link. - 13/08/2012 03:09:11 PM 902 Views
Don't get me wrong - 13/08/2012 12:53:10 AM 819 Views
Actually I believe he promised to vote for Romney if I did - 13/08/2012 03:48:35 AM 967 Views
What an amusing retrospective. - 13/08/2012 04:20:02 AM 971 Views
Uh... how exactly did you get to spending and budget timelines? - 13/08/2012 04:59:45 AM 800 Views
Tangentially, of course. - 13/08/2012 05:08:18 AM 837 Views
I tried reading it again, but my eyes glazed over when you started babbling about lesbian covens. - 14/08/2012 12:30:03 AM 752 Views
It was a hyperbolic reference to the extreme left (one stolen from Matt Groening, btw.) - 14/08/2012 10:12:09 AM 818 Views
Interesting. - 14/08/2012 11:34:30 AM 899 Views
They have a pill for that now. - 14/08/2012 01:14:39 PM 939 Views
I'm pretty sure the solution is you learning elementary composition. *NM* - 15/08/2012 11:33:57 PM 548 Views
Your willful reading incomprehension is neither my fault nor problem. - 16/08/2012 07:40:46 PM 896 Views
I don't think you can succinctly do anything. *NM* - 16/08/2012 09:33:38 PM 549 Views
I just did. - 16/08/2012 09:36:21 PM 876 Views
EDIT: ACK! Hoist on my own petard! - 14/08/2012 12:25:27 AM 822 Views
No birth control, no right to choose, no planned parenthood? - 13/08/2012 01:58:51 PM 742 Views
They are really doing a public service that way. *NM* - 13/08/2012 02:26:39 PM 386 Views
I agree with your statements - 14/08/2012 12:53:41 AM 966 Views
It's mostly nonsense - 14/08/2012 04:46:11 AM 879 Views
Well - 14/08/2012 02:54:06 PM 1087 Views
'Nonsense' refers to the thing said about the religious right by the media - 14/08/2012 04:01:47 PM 1100 Views
I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word. - 14/08/2012 06:30:23 PM 1138 Views
Re: I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word. - 15/08/2012 01:45:59 AM 845 Views
I have to keep this short, because I am on the iPad. - 15/08/2012 05:38:48 AM 796 Views
Triple reply chain is usually a good point for the trim-edit anyway - 15/08/2012 05:27:20 PM 975 Views
Or shows it's time to quit. - 15/08/2012 10:20:17 PM 1205 Views
Agreed - 15/08/2012 10:54:05 PM 754 Views
The question, as for Tom, is what you believe Romney would improve for small businesses. - 14/08/2012 01:38:29 PM 919 Views
I am aware of that, thank you. And I don't distill my choice down to small business, either. - 14/08/2012 02:24:24 PM 951 Views
I see your point, but... - 14/08/2012 02:30:22 PM 733 Views
Well - 14/08/2012 03:09:18 PM 921 Views
Are you really going to let Obama con you into voting for him again? - 21/08/2012 02:00:06 PM 742 Views
I honestly haven't decided. - 21/08/2012 04:13:44 PM 1108 Views
None of that is that important. - 14/08/2012 08:53:10 PM 914 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 15/08/2012 02:21:55 PM 505 Views
Bullshit - 21/08/2012 01:46:42 PM 929 Views
This makes me more likely to vote R this year. - 15/08/2012 02:31:06 PM 832 Views

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