Active Users:422 Time:17/09/2025 03:08:10 AM
It would be an understatement to say I have mixed feelings about this. Joel Send a noteboard - 26/08/2012 12:39:19 AM
The question of Breiviks sanity is definitely unclear; his conflicting mental exam results suggest some ability to manipulate them. My wife says his release after the first ten years is solely at the courts discretion, but other factors come into play after 21 years, and Breiviks skill with psychologists makes that unsettling. The ruling makes his atrocities rational, though inexcusable, political acts rather than deranged; his motives rational, though disgusting, political policies rather than lunacy. Ruling him insane would have told any would-be copycats that similar behavior would be considered similarly insane, not a means to publicize and advance extremist politics. Of course, whether Breivik is sane is independent of the potential consequences of ruling he is, but those consequences nonetheless remain.

As to the sentence, I expect him to go the route of Charles Manson, who has been eligible for parole since 1978 and denied twelve times. According to Wikipedia, he did not even attend his last parole hearing (in April,) "where prison officials argued that Manson had a history of controlling behavior and mental health issues including schizophrenia and paranoid delusional disorder and was too great a danger to be released. It was determined that Manson would not be reconsidered for parole for another 15 years, at which time he would be 92 years old." He has been eligible for parole for over 30 years, but will rightly die in prison, and I expect Breivik will also.

The problem is, that expectation is no guarantee; Breivik could theoretically be on the street as soon as 2021. Personally, what bothers me most about that is that Norway does not allow consecutive sentences: Even though Breivik went on two distinct murder rampages, he is not subject to any greater penalty than if he had "only" murdered a single person. In a twisted but very real way, from the moment of his first killing he had a kind of "blank check" for further ones, because subject to no penalty beyond the first murders 21 year sentence. If he breaks out of prison, killing all guards in the process, there is no point even trying him again: He must be eligible for release in 2021, no matter how many people he kills in the interim. Consecutive sentences would change things dramatically; even capping murder sentences at 10-21 years, nearly 80 convictions would ensure Breivik dies in prison. Instead, he may serve 120 months for murdering 77 people, or a little less than 2 months/murder.

I would very much like that changed, and support life sentences without parole as strongly as I oppose the death penalty. This is a textbook example of why. I would not want Breivik executed, but do not want him to ever be free again: The risk he poses is simply too great. His methodical, meticulous and careful decade of planning these atrocities are a strong argument in favor of his sanity, and against ever releasing him. He joined a gun club to gain access to the most lethal guns legal in Norway—but waited YEARS before then purchasing one. His homemade uniform convince an off-duty cop on Utøya to approach him as a colleague, only to be shot in the head. Police never uncovered his weapons cache and detailed plans because, throughout his plotting, he carefully and consistently avoided any behavior that MIGHT draw police attention; he had never even received a traffic citation. Believing him insane is almost as difficult as believing he should ever again be free, because he remains competent to repeat the worst shooting massacre in history, and always will.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 26/08/2012 at 02:12:34 AM
Reply to message
Norway killer Anders Breivik ruled sane, given 21-year prison term - 24/08/2012 11:35:06 AM 1314 Views
Only 21 years? Weaksauce. *NM* - 24/08/2012 02:35:56 PM 256 Views
It can be extended if they think he's still a danger. *NM* - 24/08/2012 03:24:41 PM 247 Views
How do they decide that? - 24/08/2012 04:22:31 PM 490 Views
[Norway, 20 years from now] - 24/08/2012 04:42:45 PM 709 Views
OR - 24/08/2012 04:54:39 PM 559 Views
Pretty sure mine's more futuristically accurate. *NM* - 24/08/2012 05:23:33 PM 261 Views
Naive, my young friend. Very naive. *NM* - 24/08/2012 05:48:16 PM 240 Views
Just because ... - 24/08/2012 09:16:20 PM 556 Views
The term should be [Norwegian psychologist] anyway. - 24/08/2012 05:28:26 PM 550 Views
Is it that simple? - 24/08/2012 05:04:34 PM 660 Views
Actually, in the sentence declared... - 24/08/2012 05:10:44 PM 585 Views
If that's so . . . - 24/08/2012 05:19:51 PM 690 Views
Re: If that's so . . . - 24/08/2012 05:26:58 PM 674 Views
The confusion is based on ignorance. - 24/08/2012 05:59:09 PM 547 Views
Well, obviously, it's in case he reforms - 24/08/2012 08:02:48 PM 514 Views
Yes. *NM* - 24/08/2012 08:35:43 PM 240 Views
That's where the system goes wrong though. - 24/08/2012 08:46:49 PM 549 Views
and then dump the cage in a deep lake *NM* - 24/08/2012 09:23:14 PM 354 Views
that is full of bull and tiger sharks - 25/08/2012 01:13:40 AM 576 Views
There is a point to keep him locked up. Actually, 77 points. - 25/08/2012 06:12:36 PM 583 Views
I agree. - 25/08/2012 06:26:34 PM 597 Views
I don't know if I agree with that. - 25/08/2012 06:53:55 PM 622 Views
Personally ... - 25/08/2012 07:20:03 PM 739 Views
Breivik will always be a threat. - 26/08/2012 01:36:34 AM 598 Views
From what I can tell they do it that way to impose a minimum sentence without parole. - 26/08/2012 01:28:21 AM 689 Views
Yes, very foreign frame of reference. - 26/08/2012 04:36:19 PM 603 Views
The only thing I wish they would add is consecutive sentences. - 26/08/2012 10:26:28 PM 677 Views
really? I hate the media - 24/08/2012 09:22:03 PM 536 Views
Well, media doesn't understand the Norwegian judicial system - 25/08/2012 05:40:15 AM 627 Views
LOL, my wife and I have nearly given up on an English translation of "forvaring." - 26/08/2012 12:50:19 AM 660 Views
Can you give some version of it? - 26/08/2012 01:38:07 AM 531 Views
Did, in my response to rt. - 26/08/2012 01:55:05 AM 514 Views
I blame having two dozen windows open. - 26/08/2012 02:58:28 PM 616 Views
*feels your pain* - 26/08/2012 08:46:01 PM 461 Views
The harshest punishment the law allows? - 24/08/2012 05:00:26 PM 490 Views
Good. *NM* - 24/08/2012 02:47:21 PM 274 Views
Timothy McVeigh was executed. - 24/08/2012 05:13:49 PM 616 Views
Umm.... - 24/08/2012 05:24:19 PM 673 Views
You have some weird ideas about punishment - 24/08/2012 05:46:49 PM 641 Views
Re: Umm.... - 24/08/2012 05:54:27 PM 546 Views
Re: Umm.... - 24/08/2012 10:04:09 PM 655 Views
Re: Umm.... - 25/08/2012 06:48:02 PM 490 Views
I never did understand the point of this trial - 24/08/2012 06:27:57 PM 674 Views
Mostly for the first reason you stated, and that nossy stated. - 26/08/2012 01:54:11 AM 535 Views
I mostly agree with you. - 24/08/2012 06:48:04 PM 578 Views
What people think. - 25/08/2012 07:03:02 PM 528 Views
hm - 25/08/2012 07:34:05 PM 647 Views
So far, it looks like I am wrong - 25/08/2012 09:28:09 PM 591 Views
I don't know if being a sociopath is the same as being insane. - 25/08/2012 09:30:47 PM 544 Views
Yeah, exactly. That kinda makes it impossible for me to vote. *NM* - 26/08/2012 12:10:38 AM 288 Views
It isn't. - 26/08/2012 09:22:22 AM 522 Views
Me? - 26/08/2012 04:43:05 PM 549 Views
It would be an understatement to say I have mixed feelings about this. - 26/08/2012 12:39:19 AM 650 Views

Reply to Message