Irans route to the sea is "not being landlocked;" it must go through Iraq to reach Syria.
Joel Send a noteboard - 24/10/2012 05:45:41 PM
Evidently Romney does not know the location of Iran (whom he declared the greatest threat to the US) OR Iraq (despite an eight year US occupation of the latter ending less than a year ago.) If he gets his finger on the red button I hope someone aims the missiles for him so he does not nuke Nebraska. 
Frankly, if foreign policy itself were not so trivial to most voters, this would be a gaffe on par with Fords "there is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe." Romneys statement suggests COMPLETE IGNORANCE of:
1) Basic military terms,
2) Irans border with the sea, its longest,
3) the sea in question being NAMED FOR IRAN,
4) Irans LACK of a border with Syria, which thus offers no route to the sea anyway without a portage through Iraq.
It is trivially important, for many reasons. First and foremost, "route to the sea" means just that: Putting ships in the ocean lets them eventually reach ANY point on the ocean. If Romney meant "a route to the Mediterranean" he should have said so, because everyone with even a passing knowledge of strategic terms understands "a route to the sea" means what I just stated.
Even if he DID mean that, however, the Persian Gulf grants Mediterranean access via the Suez Canal, which the Muslim Brotherhood would never deny Iran. As far as choke points, the Straits of Hormuz have nothing on the Straits of Gibraltar; any Iranian military fleet that reached the Mediterranean would be under the guns of NATO fighters and bombers (not to mention the US, British and French navies) for over 1000 miles before it could escape a MASSIVE kill zone.
All of which ignores (or reinforces) what may be the most significant factor: Iran is not a sea power in the first place. Its principal need for sea access is commerical, for its oil tankers; unless Romney is planning to attack commercial Iranian shipping the whole debate is moot. Except that it demonstrates a shocking the would-be Commander-in-Chiefs shocking ignorance of what he calls "the greatest threat to America." Irans border with the Persian Gulf is as dangerous to America as Mediterranean access would be; it is about the same distance to the US either way, if Iran had a navy capable of crossing it and ours would not blow it out of the water.
Romneys whole statement was patent nonsense, but he gets away with it because 1) most of the US could not care less what happens outside its borders, so 2) most voters are at least as ignorant of Iran as Romney, and do not know enough to know how wrong he was.
Going through Syria poses all those same problems because IRAN HAS NO BORDER WITH SYRIA. Pretty sure if Iran invaded Iraq to reach Syria to launch ships in the Mediterranean the US would have something to say about it. Even President Romney would, once someone told him where Iran, Iraq and Syria are.
This was not nuance, it was Romneys galloping ignorance of what he calls the greatest threat to America. He was sucking up to the USN as he has throughout the campaign, because he is far more knowledgeable of Norfolk and Pensacola than he is Iran.

Frankly, if foreign policy itself were not so trivial to most voters, this would be a gaffe on par with Fords "there is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe." Romneys statement suggests COMPLETE IGNORANCE of:
1) Basic military terms,
2) Irans border with the sea, its longest,
3) the sea in question being NAMED FOR IRAN,
4) Irans LACK of a border with Syria, which thus offers no route to the sea anyway without a portage through Iraq.
The Persian Gulf gives access to the Indian ocean, and through it to the Pacific, but the Med gives acccess to the rest of the Middle East/Eastern Africa and Europe without having to go all the way around the horn. It is rather important, and that access is one of the reasons that Iraq and Iran have been foes for so long. Additionally there is a nasty choke point on the Persian Gulf at the indian Ocean access point.
It is trivially important, for many reasons. First and foremost, "route to the sea" means just that: Putting ships in the ocean lets them eventually reach ANY point on the ocean. If Romney meant "a route to the Mediterranean" he should have said so, because everyone with even a passing knowledge of strategic terms understands "a route to the sea" means what I just stated.
Even if he DID mean that, however, the Persian Gulf grants Mediterranean access via the Suez Canal, which the Muslim Brotherhood would never deny Iran. As far as choke points, the Straits of Hormuz have nothing on the Straits of Gibraltar; any Iranian military fleet that reached the Mediterranean would be under the guns of NATO fighters and bombers (not to mention the US, British and French navies) for over 1000 miles before it could escape a MASSIVE kill zone.
All of which ignores (or reinforces) what may be the most significant factor: Iran is not a sea power in the first place. Its principal need for sea access is commerical, for its oil tankers; unless Romney is planning to attack commercial Iranian shipping the whole debate is moot. Except that it demonstrates a shocking the would-be Commander-in-Chiefs shocking ignorance of what he calls "the greatest threat to America." Irans border with the Persian Gulf is as dangerous to America as Mediterranean access would be; it is about the same distance to the US either way, if Iran had a navy capable of crossing it and ours would not blow it out of the water.
Romneys whole statement was patent nonsense, but he gets away with it because 1) most of the US could not care less what happens outside its borders, so 2) most voters are at least as ignorant of Iran as Romney, and do not know enough to know how wrong he was.
are other ways that Iran can get to the Med, but the northern route is through some very nasty terain and several small unfriendly countries tha make a land-grab or negotiated treaties problematical in that direction.
Going through Syria poses all those same problems because IRAN HAS NO BORDER WITH SYRIA. Pretty sure if Iran invaded Iraq to reach Syria to launch ships in the Mediterranean the US would have something to say about it. Even President Romney would, once someone told him where Iran, Iraq and Syria are.

This is an often repeated statment, and the explenation of it is more complicated than a political campaign can compress into a sound-bite but it is essentially correct. None of that will stop folks from attempting to use it to paint Romney in a bad light to folks who don't know any better.
This was not nuance, it was Romneys galloping ignorance of what he calls the greatest threat to America. He was sucking up to the USN as he has throughout the campaign, because he is far more knowledgeable of Norfolk and Pensacola than he is Iran.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Between the ships, horses, bayonets, and lines about loving teachers...
23/10/2012 04:44:32 AM
- 1068 Views
He loves teachers, but only so long as we are seen and not heard.
23/10/2012 05:07:15 AM
- 528 Views
Which might those be?
23/10/2012 07:25:24 AM
- 527 Views
Romney did a good job, ultimately.
23/10/2012 05:13:00 AM
- 500 Views
I think it's safe to say foreign policy doesn't interest either of them all that much
23/10/2012 05:30:53 AM
- 491 Views
They really need to get together with the Greens.
23/10/2012 07:02:18 AM
- 553 Views
are you familiar with that scene in "life of brian"?
23/10/2012 05:25:54 PM
- 483 Views
I am indeed, but I do not see how proportional representation would help much.
23/10/2012 05:38:27 PM
- 444 Views
because PR coupled with IRV gives voters a lot more choice than D vs R
23/10/2012 09:47:27 PM
- 459 Views
PR mainly seems to give the same choices more OUTCOMES (and meshes poorly with IRV.)
24/10/2012 12:38:29 PM
- 500 Views
The instapolls declared Obama victor in #1 too, Romney won this one
23/10/2012 06:00:26 AM
- 690 Views
*blinks*
23/10/2012 06:08:00 AM
- 572 Views
With you on the first part, but most people conceded Obama had the edge on foreign policy.
23/10/2012 06:24:24 AM
- 511 Views
are you sure you weren't re-watching the first debate?
23/10/2012 06:08:36 PM
- 458 Views
No, defintely watching this one
24/10/2012 04:02:44 AM
- 542 Views
romney should be hanging in the wind with the way he campaigned
24/10/2012 06:28:40 AM
- 487 Views
So your rebuttal is to call for Romney's death? Nice *NM*
24/10/2012 06:57:19 AM
- 236 Views
yes, way to misconstrue what i said without actually responding to any of it
*NM*
24/10/2012 05:20:07 PM
- 246 Views

You said it, not me, but way to double down on it, very classy *NM*
25/10/2012 03:00:10 AM
- 223 Views
i see romney has taught you the ways of the douchebag asshole. you used to be better than that...
25/10/2012 05:42:38 AM
- 425 Views
In fairness to Isaac, the terminology used typically describes hanging a criminal
25/10/2012 06:55:43 AM
- 550 Views
i'm sure if it were not the end of the election cycle he would not have taken it that way
25/10/2012 05:52:25 PM
- 506 Views
I must agree with Isaac and Legolas; violent language like that is a (literal) trigger for nutjobs.
29/10/2012 07:00:53 PM
- 427 Views
I have agreed with the post mortems till now; no idea how anyone can score that a Romney win.
23/10/2012 06:01:22 AM
- 562 Views
My favorite gaffe of the night:
23/10/2012 06:07:19 AM
- 545 Views
Honestly, it was hard to miss: The Persian Gulf is named after Iran.
23/10/2012 06:28:25 AM
- 504 Views
I was wondering what Iran would see as weaker
23/10/2012 12:59:38 PM
- 469 Views
Hopefully America is wondering the same thing, but that presumes most of us can find Iran on a map.
23/10/2012 04:01:19 PM
- 561 Views
..and the folks poking fun at him hope we only look at the cropped map they provide. *NM*
23/10/2012 07:18:11 PM
- 227 Views
It was a poorly worded statement, the "sea" being referred to is the Med, but essentially correct.
23/10/2012 07:16:37 PM
- 531 Views
What is this, the 19th century? Why is the Med so important?
23/10/2012 10:20:11 PM
- 540 Views
Commercial, Iran doesn't have a navy worth mentioning.
24/10/2012 03:41:46 PM
- 528 Views
Okay, commercial, that narrows it down. How, exactly?
24/10/2012 06:02:01 PM
- 503 Views
Right family (Hussein of Jordan), wrong generation by a few hundered years.
25/10/2012 06:16:51 PM
- 542 Views
Hm. Curious who you mean, then.
25/10/2012 11:52:06 PM
- 534 Views
You are too hung up on a "port"
26/10/2012 03:13:59 PM
- 455 Views
That's what Romney and you said, isn't it? Access to the Mediterranean.
26/10/2012 11:30:55 PM
- 630 Views
Re: That's what Romney and you said, isn't it? Access to the Mediterranean.
29/10/2012 02:23:33 PM
- 552 Views
Commercial interests are the only relevant ones, but commerical shipping has the Suez.
25/10/2012 11:31:23 PM
- 460 Views
and one he seems to keep making - how many times do you give someone the benefit of the doubt?
23/10/2012 11:46:55 PM
- 584 Views
it is simply a standard descriptive line.
24/10/2012 03:54:49 PM
- 568 Views
What is?
25/10/2012 11:15:28 AM
- 458 Views
Not really my contradictions, Frankly I think most of the political enteties in the ME are nuts. *NM*
25/10/2012 06:23:51 PM
- 219 Views
I'm refering to the contradictions of your argument, not the region
25/10/2012 11:47:29 PM
- 536 Views
Irans route to the sea is "not being landlocked;" it must go through Iraq to reach Syria.
24/10/2012 05:45:41 PM
- 521 Views
It is not ships and military conquest through the Med, it is political and ideological/religious.
25/10/2012 09:57:18 PM
- 496 Views
Um, I am pretty sure that stuff travels by internet and radio, not by sea.
25/10/2012 11:27:17 PM
- 505 Views
It is sociological, political, and religous, it does not have to make logical sense. *NM*
29/10/2012 02:26:43 PM
- 209 Views
If Romney wants to be president, he should make sense, particularly when arguing a cause for war.
29/10/2012 06:46:06 PM
- 580 Views
Obama trounced him but he was always going to and by this point nobody cares anymore
23/10/2012 12:58:12 PM
- 448 Views
The election is a tossup. Could really go either way at this point. *NM*
23/10/2012 11:06:39 PM
- 238 Views
inexplicably a tossup. normally the proven liar (romney) would have no chance
23/10/2012 11:36:16 PM
- 491 Views
Pointing to one side of a political debate/campaign and yelling LIAR is the definition of hypocrisy. *NM*
25/10/2012 09:59:08 PM
- 204 Views
well then prove to us mitt romney is not a liar and i will retract my statements *NM*
25/10/2012 10:32:18 PM
- 239 Views