My father (and other world history buffs) can go into much better detail than I can. The conflicts in the Middle East (and ties) go back literally thousands of years. There are not only conflicting religous claims, but also numerous political histoies for virtually every grain of sand in the region. A comprehensive matrix of them would literally run in about 4 or 5 directions, and most folks think they are all valid. It is a quagmire.
You could be referring to the Sharif Husayn, the ruler of Mecca during WW1, who is indeed an ancestor of the current kings of Jordan - but what does he have to do with Iran?
I studied Islamic history and Arabic, so while it's possible your father's knowledge is more extensive than mine, I'm fairly sure I know the important stuff in the history of the Middle East. I quite agree that it's extremely complicated and a quagmire - I just don't see your point about Mediterranean Sea access. You could well be right that that's what Romney meant, and that he did in fact know enough geography to think of the Persian Gulf, but then I still want to know why he thinks that's such a big deal.
That being said, the official foreign policy/religous belief of Iran is that a new Caliphate will arise (of course headed by Iran) and when it does the direct decendant of Mohammad will reveal himself to lead it (and of course he will be an Iranian). In the process all those blasphemous Sunni muslims, Jews, and Cristians will be dead or converted (I guess the Bhuddists and hindi get a pass for now), what happens to the atheists is much uglier. Step 1 has always been the elimination of Iraq. Once that happens they probably assume that Syria will join them as they are shia also. At this point the Med opens up the rest of the world to them.
Imamate, not Caliphate - caliphs are Sunni. You may find it interesting to know that the Sunnis believe in the coming of the Mahdi too, though of course they don't believe that he will be either Iranian or a Shi'ite - and both denominations also believe in the second coming of Jesus. Kind of ironic, really, the way both evangelical Christians and Muslims believe Jesus will return to pray at the site of the old Jewish Temple in Jerusalem (and both use those eschatological beliefs as a factor in their politics, which I as a non-believer can only look at in horror).
While it's of course true that the Iranian regime is rather more obsessed with this kind of stuff than most other Muslims, I find your mixture of eschatology and real-politik somewhat bizarre. If the Mahdi does appear as they expect, it's really not going to matter one jot whether Iran has a port on the Mediterranean or not. And if he doesn't appear, that port really isn't a priority for them.
Between the ships, horses, bayonets, and lines about loving teachers...
23/10/2012 04:44:32 AM
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He loves teachers, but only so long as we are seen and not heard.
23/10/2012 05:07:15 AM
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Which might those be?
23/10/2012 07:25:24 AM
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Romney did a good job, ultimately.
23/10/2012 05:13:00 AM
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I think it's safe to say foreign policy doesn't interest either of them all that much
23/10/2012 05:30:53 AM
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They really need to get together with the Greens.
23/10/2012 07:02:18 AM
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are you familiar with that scene in "life of brian"?
23/10/2012 05:25:54 PM
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I am indeed, but I do not see how proportional representation would help much.
23/10/2012 05:38:27 PM
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because PR coupled with IRV gives voters a lot more choice than D vs R
23/10/2012 09:47:27 PM
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PR mainly seems to give the same choices more OUTCOMES (and meshes poorly with IRV.)
24/10/2012 12:38:29 PM
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The instapolls declared Obama victor in #1 too, Romney won this one
23/10/2012 06:00:26 AM
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*blinks*
23/10/2012 06:08:00 AM
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With you on the first part, but most people conceded Obama had the edge on foreign policy.
23/10/2012 06:24:24 AM
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are you sure you weren't re-watching the first debate?
23/10/2012 06:08:36 PM
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No, defintely watching this one
24/10/2012 04:02:44 AM
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romney should be hanging in the wind with the way he campaigned
24/10/2012 06:28:40 AM
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So your rebuttal is to call for Romney's death? Nice *NM*
24/10/2012 06:57:19 AM
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yes, way to misconstrue what i said without actually responding to any of it
*NM*
24/10/2012 05:20:07 PM
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You said it, not me, but way to double down on it, very classy *NM*
25/10/2012 03:00:10 AM
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i see romney has taught you the ways of the douchebag asshole. you used to be better than that...
25/10/2012 05:42:38 AM
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In fairness to Isaac, the terminology used typically describes hanging a criminal
25/10/2012 06:55:43 AM
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i'm sure if it were not the end of the election cycle he would not have taken it that way
25/10/2012 05:52:25 PM
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I must agree with Isaac and Legolas; violent language like that is a (literal) trigger for nutjobs.
29/10/2012 07:00:53 PM
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I have agreed with the post mortems till now; no idea how anyone can score that a Romney win.
23/10/2012 06:01:22 AM
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My favorite gaffe of the night:
23/10/2012 06:07:19 AM
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Honestly, it was hard to miss: The Persian Gulf is named after Iran.
23/10/2012 06:28:25 AM
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I was wondering what Iran would see as weaker
23/10/2012 12:59:38 PM
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Hopefully America is wondering the same thing, but that presumes most of us can find Iran on a map.
23/10/2012 04:01:19 PM
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..and the folks poking fun at him hope we only look at the cropped map they provide. *NM*
23/10/2012 07:18:11 PM
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It was a poorly worded statement, the "sea" being referred to is the Med, but essentially correct.
23/10/2012 07:16:37 PM
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What is this, the 19th century? Why is the Med so important?
23/10/2012 10:20:11 PM
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Commercial, Iran doesn't have a navy worth mentioning.
24/10/2012 03:41:46 PM
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Okay, commercial, that narrows it down. How, exactly?
24/10/2012 06:02:01 PM
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Right family (Hussein of Jordan), wrong generation by a few hundered years.
25/10/2012 06:16:51 PM
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Hm. Curious who you mean, then.
25/10/2012 11:52:06 PM
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You are too hung up on a "port"
26/10/2012 03:13:59 PM
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That's what Romney and you said, isn't it? Access to the Mediterranean.
26/10/2012 11:30:55 PM
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Re: That's what Romney and you said, isn't it? Access to the Mediterranean.
29/10/2012 02:23:33 PM
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Commercial interests are the only relevant ones, but commerical shipping has the Suez.
25/10/2012 11:31:23 PM
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and one he seems to keep making - how many times do you give someone the benefit of the doubt?
23/10/2012 11:46:55 PM
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it is simply a standard descriptive line.
24/10/2012 03:54:49 PM
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What is?
25/10/2012 11:15:28 AM
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Not really my contradictions, Frankly I think most of the political enteties in the ME are nuts. *NM*
25/10/2012 06:23:51 PM
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I'm refering to the contradictions of your argument, not the region
25/10/2012 11:47:29 PM
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Irans route to the sea is "not being landlocked;" it must go through Iraq to reach Syria.
24/10/2012 05:45:41 PM
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It is not ships and military conquest through the Med, it is political and ideological/religious.
25/10/2012 09:57:18 PM
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Um, I am pretty sure that stuff travels by internet and radio, not by sea.
25/10/2012 11:27:17 PM
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It is sociological, political, and religous, it does not have to make logical sense. *NM*
29/10/2012 02:26:43 PM
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If Romney wants to be president, he should make sense, particularly when arguing a cause for war.
29/10/2012 06:46:06 PM
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Obama trounced him but he was always going to and by this point nobody cares anymore
23/10/2012 12:58:12 PM
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The election is a tossup. Could really go either way at this point. *NM*
23/10/2012 11:06:39 PM
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inexplicably a tossup. normally the proven liar (romney) would have no chance
23/10/2012 11:36:16 PM
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Pointing to one side of a political debate/campaign and yelling LIAR is the definition of hypocrisy. *NM*
25/10/2012 09:59:08 PM
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well then prove to us mitt romney is not a liar and i will retract my statements *NM*
25/10/2012 10:32:18 PM
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