Active Users:191 Time:01/05/2024 04:12:07 PM
Really, you have a list of every single study conducted on the matter? Isaac Send a noteboard - 07/07/2013 02:51:05 AM

View original post
View original postWho did the study and what their standards and scoring were are very important, for instance the HDI - while seriously improved by the 2010 revisions - is still essentially an intensely stupid way of comparing first world countries, for which it isn't and never was intended anyway. Most of these studies will pick arbitrary scoring methods and often apply what amounts to their own concept of utopia-lite as the gage.


View original postThe HDI you mentioned puts the USA in 3rd place, which is one of its better showings.

Yes and I could tear apart the flaws in the HDI all day long, even with the 2010 improvements.


View original postThe one I had in mind when I posted was the Index of Freedom in the World from the Cato, Fraser, and Liberales Institutes, which puts the US in 7th place.

Averages of studies always seems popular, like RCP's average of polls, in spite of it being blatant nonsense at every possible level. You can't average things using different standards and methodology. Plus this is no different then the others, it has a clear bias to classic liberalism, effectively libertarianism, which while admittedly my own leaning hardly makes it unbiased. One notes that while one of the sources mentions regret over not being able to discuss freedom concerning alcohol or drugs, guns tend not to get mentioned at all.


View original postThe Index of Economic Freedom, from the Heritage Foundation, puts the US in 10th place.


View original postThe World Press Freedom Index, from, Reporters Without Boarders, puts the US in 32nd place.

Yeah, because the media's opinion is notoriously relevant to most American Conservatives Incidentally many of those countries have prominent public TV/radio/papers/etc which generally lowers my belief in their freedom of the press, and not very many outlets. But I wouldn't claim the US has the freest press, anything but, yet I'd also point out that we have a very free press considering the pressures we are under not to, which many of those others don't have. Iceland, for instance, does not have hundreds of thousands of soldiers and spies out there vulnerable to exposure, research facilities others nations would murder to get a look inside, and all the other luxuries afforded countries on the second or third tier of power and influence.


View original postThe Freedom Meta-Index at FreeExistence.Org is interesting because there is no possible metric in which the United States scores higher than New Zealand.

That actually just reflects you not doing the work, not what the index says, I stuck guns as 'crucial' and the US immediately jumped to #3 and New Zealand dumped down to #161. We also lapped them on limited government and I didn't check them all. The thing is New Zealand has a very high property rights score. This metric also assumes drug rights deserve equal weight as gun rights, which needless to say I disagree with. Most people do, whether they think one ranks the other or vice-versa. Much like the HDI, which has three categories each given equal weight, such things typically revolve around over-simplificaiton out of necessity without acknowledging that just because they must oversimplify doesn't mean the data is now accurate.

If you set every parameter to 'somewhat important' or .5, so as to be able to rate these best to taste, the US jumps to top 3 on almost any option that demotes drugs as important, and it jumps to #1 just by increasing guns and business freedom, most American conservatives consider those two very important so they are actually not just indulging in nationalism if they say the US freest.

That is a cool link though, and while the actual data is probably disputable I'd advise everyone to stick everything at 'somewhat important then dial in their own preferences and see who pops up top.


View original postI have yet to see any study which concludes that the USA is the "most free" country in the world.

As I said, I doubt you've been very exhaustive about it, plus I really doubt anyone would publish a study that had US as #1. Its very easy to tweak the way things add up in what is typically entirely arbitrary ratings and any study showing the US as #1 would be shrugged at in the US and mocked elsewhere, even if it were valid. MY point isn't that the US is #1, and never has been, its that it is #1 for me and that such ratings systems are almost always arbitrary and rather silly.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 07/07/2013 at 02:53:29 AM
Reply to message
Gallup - Conservatives more proud to be American than Liberals..... - 04/07/2013 09:12:12 PM 1212 Views
I'm not surprised either. *NM* - 04/07/2013 09:19:25 PM 328 Views
How does one American? *NM* - 04/07/2013 09:58:03 PM 352 Views
That seems like a no-brainer. What I find more remarkable... - 04/07/2013 10:15:10 PM 650 Views
I'm not all that surprised by that, either. - 04/07/2013 10:47:41 PM 598 Views
I'm trying to think my way through this, and I keep running into holes. - 04/07/2013 10:48:59 PM 678 Views
I really don't want to get into the sickness known as nationalism (patriotism) - 05/07/2013 07:10:09 PM 813 Views
I'm curious — how would you avoid regionalism? - 05/07/2013 08:15:02 PM 658 Views
P.S. (more thoughts on worldwide government) - 05/07/2013 08:57:01 PM 611 Views
Interesting general thought train, let me hop on board - 07/07/2013 12:52:18 PM 729 Views
Mmm. - 09/07/2013 05:44:04 PM 700 Views
Interplanetary just doesn't leave much interdependence - 09/07/2013 08:14:18 PM 675 Views
Them's some cool beans. - 09/07/2013 09:11:50 PM 585 Views
Re: Them's some cool beans. - 09/07/2013 10:11:50 PM 589 Views
There were two questions on that poll. - 05/07/2013 07:53:13 PM 862 Views
That's because being born in America is the best thing they ever did - 05/07/2013 07:04:54 PM 796 Views
Congrats! You win the bitterness award. - 05/07/2013 09:49:00 PM 721 Views
Bitterness? How so? - 08/07/2013 05:26:50 PM 788 Views
Nice post. Your honor, I rest my case! *NM* - 08/07/2013 06:15:47 PM 332 Views
Er. Obviously? - 06/07/2013 02:24:44 PM 694 Views
By what measure, I wonder... - 06/07/2013 04:21:57 PM 662 Views
Being proud of America has zero to do with our government..... - 06/07/2013 04:57:30 PM 578 Views
I don't think this is accurate. - 06/07/2013 10:58:43 PM 685 Views
Re: I don't think this is accurate. - 06/07/2013 11:46:47 PM 664 Views
You'd have to list the study - 07/07/2013 12:10:13 AM 783 Views
Every study. - 07/07/2013 01:14:48 AM 759 Views
Really, you have a list of every single study conducted on the matter? - 07/07/2013 02:51:05 AM 766 Views
I have a list of every study I listed! - 07/07/2013 03:55:21 AM 856 Views
Damn, you just got schooled! Good Job by Isaac. - 07/07/2013 04:27:45 AM 641 Views
I hope you'll understand that I don't find that compelling - 07/07/2013 05:07:52 AM 801 Views
Nice non-reply. - 09/07/2013 05:23:25 PM 653 Views
You didn't say anything meriting an in-depth response - 09/07/2013 08:52:13 PM 597 Views
Actually.... - 10/07/2013 03:00:42 AM 572 Views
Pride comes before the fall. *NM* - 12/07/2013 06:33:56 PM 369 Views

Reply to Message