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Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Which neighborhood watch were you referring to? Cannoli Send a noteboard - 15/07/2013 12:46:44 AM


No, basic Christian decency demands nothing of the sort.

Basic Christian decency states that the death of Trayvon Martin is a tragedy, period, full stop.

And? It does not mean that George Zimmerman is to blame for that tragedy, nor does it demand punishment. The tragedy is old. Your present reaction can only be seriously seen as against the verdict.
Basic common sense says that following a kid through your neighborhood with a gun is also probably a bad thing.
Are you some sort of moron? If George Zimmerman had not done so, he might be dead. Just because the thug who almost certainly attacked him was younger than he does not make Martin's death more of a tragedy than that of a good citizen and a community volunteer.
You've put a great deal onto me from the three sentences I wrote here, and you're telling me to judge not? Basic Christian decency says: you're a hypocrite. But nothing new there from you, eh?
And you're doing it right back. I know more of you from your many posts on this site, as you know of me from your inference, and more than either of us know about Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman. Except that the guy with injuries from a beating, who is a community volunteer is alive and the kid known to have been caught in possession of burglar tools and women's jewelry and quoted making racist slurs against the man he is reported to have attacked is being treated as the victim.
Maybe the prosecution over-prosecuted. Maybe justice was done. But it is the self-righteous idiots like yourself, who fail to see that a CHILD WAS KILLED BY AN IDIOT WITH A GUN AND THIS IS A BAD THING who make the story of the Good Samaritan so hard to preach today.
I've said this before, but if that's your attitude, you might be in the wrong line of work. If you can't see that the evils of human nature are the whole raison d'etre of your ministry and that of Our Lord Himself, if you are looking for perfection in this world to the extent that a jury decision with which you disapprove throws off your ability to preach...think about it. Perspective, man.

As for your argument, it is pretty much a huge logical fallacy. You demand that everyone focus on the tragedy of the person who died on the wrong side of an arbitrary legal line of demarcation between adulthood and childhood, and are incensed that some people choose to concern themselves with the possible unjust imprisonment of an innocent man. Nothing you and your ideological kindred do or say will bring back Trayvon Martin, but those of us with a different perspective saw a possible injustice that could be averted.

How dare you call a man you have never met an idiot! You seem to imply that the outcome of his actions proves this condition, but to the contrary, by all legal standards, including a jury of his peers, in spite of an unjust prosecution (as claimed by a far left legal expert, Alan Dershowitz), he committed an act of self-defense. Carrying a gun may be the sole reason he is alive today, and a jury that was presented with the best evidence the state could procure against him, believed he had valid reasons to use that gun. Objectively speaking, that makes him rather smart for carrying it.


So judge me, while you talk about judging not.
I judge you on your words, though you lack the courage to stand by them. You judge Zimmerman on partisan reports and cast doubt on the evidence and cases presented in our legal system. You criticize solely on the outcome of his actions, as if your emotional preferences are some sort of objective standard, and you undercut your faith with your belief that death is automatically a tragedy to be angry over, rather than being called home to God, Whose justice is infinite and perfect. You speak, not for the first time, of being unable to discharge your pastoral responsibilities out of your personal reactions to iniquities in the world, which are of highly doubtful provenance, and refuse to entertain the idea that a good man saved his own life and maybe the lives of others who might not be so fortunate as to be armed when they unwittingly offended a large muscular young man in their own neighborhoods.

I am judging your words, not you personally, but you presume to judge the character and intentions of a man you have never met. I am the one making allowances for him because I do not know enough to condemn him. If I have not spoken in defense of Trayvon Martin as much, he has had more than his share of people willing to do so, of much greater stature than myself.


You're like the teacher of the law the parable talks about, who tries to determine who he is supposed to love, when the lesson is to love all people regardless of race.
I know who my neighbor is, and I give him the benefit of the doubt, rather than condemn him because of the color of his skin or that of the man he fought. I am not going around calling people idiots, because of the lies others tell about their actions. A national news network edited the recording of Zimmerman's 911 call to make it seem as if he made racist statements, and other media doctored the photographs of Zimmerman to conceal his injuries, all while showing childhood pictures of a strapping six foot jock to give the impression that Zimmerman had gunned down a small boy.
Keep defending the oppressors,
Aren't we supposed to love them too? As for oppressors, who is the oppressor here? The man who was criticized by the president of the United States, or the man towards whose family the president expressed racial solidarity, and who US Congressmen dressed in the same fashion to honor him? Can you honestly say that blacks are the oppressed when they are the perpetrators of most criminal interracial violence? Or maybe the shoe is on the other foot, given the ongoing history of whites being made into scapegoats and falsely accused of racism and violence towards blacks. No white man would still have a public career after actions akin to Al Sharpton's stirring up anti-Semitic mobs that murdered a Jewish man, the Tawana Brawley case and his siding with every false racism claim to come down the pike in the last three decades.

Who is the oppressor? The man who was singled out for political reasons, whose accusers concealed evidence in order to put him on trial and imprison him, then tried to change their accusations without trying the new charges when their case was damaged? Doesn't fit the usual definition....

Or maybe we are supposed to just keep heaping injustices on other people until the ancient wrongs done to blacks have been equaled? That's the old law of an eye for an eye. The new Law is to look past the old racial hostilities, as the Good Samaritan did in helping the Jew. Lest you forget, the Samaritans, like George Zimmerman, were half-breeds.


keep saying its okay to kill if someone might be dangerous, sorta maybe.
If that was remotely what happened, you'd have a point. But no one is rejoicing in the death of Trayvon Martin, not even Zimmerman (even the worst interpretation of his character must concede that), those rejoicing in this verdict are doing so that a sentence was not handed down on a man who does not meet the criteria necessary to so move the wheels of justice. According to the expert witness, AND an eye witness for the prosecution, the dead man was on top of and pounding the man who shot him. That easily fits the definition of definitely dangerous. "...might be dangerous, sort maybe" is only the claim of the mendacious & biased and those who are completely in ignorance about the trial.
You will face justice one day. God will probably forgive you, too. But right now, I have a great deal of trouble seeing why.
If you mean that, God help you. How you can make a pretense of preaching His Word when you cavalierly speak of placing your own emotional reactions over understanding His goodness is beyond me. If you really don't get it, why are you wasting your life this way? Why not become a lobbyist or activist or something, anything but a promulgator of a belief system in which you fail to grasp the central thesis?
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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Zimmerman = Not Guilty - 14/07/2013 04:04:07 AM 1719 Views
Any charge, other than stupidity, was rediculous. *NM* - 14/07/2013 04:24:09 AM 471 Views
Stupidity+Death= Manslaughter *NM* - 14/07/2013 05:27:39 AM 445 Views
But hey... - 14/07/2013 05:35:11 AM 946 Views
And THAT is the scary precendent this case sets for the populace - 14/07/2013 05:28:03 PM 1072 Views
Oh puhleeze... can you get any more rediculous? *NM* - 14/07/2013 07:22:52 PM 594 Views
HyogaRott baby, you are hurting me here. Can you please stop this? - 14/07/2013 11:29:00 PM 834 Views
If inline spellcheck doesn't catch it, I probably won't either. - 15/07/2013 06:29:29 AM 759 Views
you really are small minded little bigot - 15/07/2013 03:57:01 AM 844 Views
+1 - Seriously has imlad always been this nuts? *NM* - 15/07/2013 04:32:33 AM 507 Views
Your reply is partisan and obnoxious. - 15/07/2013 02:15:13 PM 830 Views
So it was okay that he was on top of a guy, pounding his head into the pavement? - 14/07/2013 06:45:17 PM 843 Views
If you can believe Zimmerman's side of the story is 100% truth, I have a bridge for sale... - 15/07/2013 05:35:08 PM 950 Views
do you have actual evidence to support zimmerman lied? *NM* - 16/07/2013 05:43:42 PM 475 Views
Sure - 16/07/2013 06:49:20 PM 729 Views
Re: Sure - 16/07/2013 07:53:27 PM 890 Views
Re: Sure - 16/07/2013 10:07:13 PM 936 Views
Re: Sure - 17/07/2013 03:26:15 AM 868 Views
The kid decided to beat a man who had a gun and got shot for it - 15/07/2013 03:46:38 AM 830 Views
In a sane world, here is how their interaction plays out - 15/07/2013 05:44:26 PM 788 Views
Yes. And the fact that he didn't simply ask him what he was doing, tells me he was racial profiling - 15/07/2013 08:59:41 PM 783 Views
The only way that statement makes sense is if it is sarcasm - 16/07/2013 12:46:59 PM 738 Views
And tomorrow I get to preach about the Good Samaritan. - 14/07/2013 05:26:50 AM 1009 Views
Where's your forgiveness?? Judge not lest ye be judged. - 14/07/2013 07:10:14 PM 777 Views
Did I say a thing about Zimmerman? No. - 14/07/2013 08:44:26 PM 916 Views
Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Which neighborhood watch were you referring to? - 15/07/2013 12:46:44 AM 877 Views
Float your concept of grace in front of your priest sometime. - 15/07/2013 04:31:34 AM 744 Views
Danny... - 15/07/2013 01:32:03 PM 842 Views
You'd think the rain of venom in here would make everyone's soapbox too slippery to stand on - 15/07/2013 01:05:41 PM 767 Views
+1 *NM* - 15/07/2013 06:40:15 PM 528 Views
would that be true for most of politics as well? *NM* - 16/07/2013 12:58:33 PM 498 Views
Depends on the case, but those aren't individual life and death criminal trials - 16/07/2013 01:52:00 PM 710 Views
when the president gets involved it is safe to polotics are at play. - 16/07/2013 06:23:54 PM 755 Views
That's not an unfair remark but it justifies criticizing him, not also getting involved in the case - 16/07/2013 06:59:53 PM 771 Views
When a case shows glaring holes in the law, it should by nature cause those laws to be reconsidered - 16/07/2013 07:18:57 PM 866 Views
I'm not sure what those 'glaring holes' are, but a specific person shouldn't be needed to show them - 16/07/2013 08:18:38 PM 769 Views
It is a bit difficult to not use the case when the specificity of the case is the problem.... - 16/07/2013 11:06:59 PM 834 Views
I sympathize with that but I think it remains a moral necessity to do so - 17/07/2013 12:14:39 AM 903 Views
Re: I sympathize with that but I think it remains a moral necessity to do so - 17/07/2013 05:29:56 PM 890 Views
I think you've over-personalized this case - 17/07/2013 08:00:50 PM 819 Views
I think this case is simply the closest example at hand of a perceived lack of justice - 17/07/2013 10:34:38 PM 875 Views
Re: I think this case is simply the closest example at hand of a perceived lack of justice - 18/07/2013 01:39:17 AM 1017 Views
Jury instructions - 18/07/2013 04:12:29 AM 969 Views
Jury Instructions 2 - 18/07/2013 06:22:33 PM 811 Views
I just want to comment on two points from your reply - 19/07/2013 09:47:06 PM 729 Views
I'm pretty throughly exhausted of this - 19/07/2013 10:46:22 PM 818 Views
Nice. - 16/07/2013 09:01:50 PM 926 Views
Thanks - 16/07/2013 09:48:00 PM 759 Views
Well said. - 17/07/2013 02:25:36 PM 926 Views
it is possible to discuss a case based on what the evidence shows - 17/07/2013 06:03:05 PM 908 Views
Of course it is possible, one just fails to see how it can serve any good end - 17/07/2013 09:43:02 PM 771 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 18/07/2013 02:08:25 AM 563 Views
That just brings us full circle to my orignal reply to you - 18/07/2013 02:52:15 AM 817 Views
Re: That just brings us full circle to my orignal reply to you - 18/07/2013 04:09:51 AM 924 Views
are agree with your general concept - 18/07/2013 05:20:41 PM 1049 Views
Good. - 15/07/2013 02:11:12 PM 749 Views
Perhaps one day black people will have the same rights as whites in the US - 15/07/2013 05:30:00 PM 908 Views
Congratulations on making one of the dumbest statemets of the year. *NM* - 15/07/2013 09:00:46 PM 535 Views
You have tried retroatcively making Martin a criminal here, despite him doing nothing wrong - 15/07/2013 10:52:32 PM 808 Views
So you support attacking creepy crackers who you think are following you? - 16/07/2013 12:56:52 PM 798 Views
The law suggests that if I fear for my safety, I am justified in attacking first in self-defense - 18/07/2013 11:00:58 PM 861 Views
there is zero evidience to support that assumption - 19/07/2013 04:25:15 AM 730 Views
Let's see - Martin was using drugs..... - 16/07/2013 04:56:13 PM 787 Views
Does that mean he should have been hunted down and shot? *NM* - 16/07/2013 05:22:43 PM 492 Views
He wasn't, so your question is irrelevant. - 16/07/2013 05:37:27 PM 714 Views

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