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Yeah. nossy Send a noteboard - 10/01/2015 01:17:52 PM

View original postThose in the West did too, not that long ago, even if the more extreme kinds like witch-burning are rather longer ago. These are things that of course have to change, here the silent majority has to change its view, but you can't expect them to change overnight, and the more Muslims have the impression that their religion is under attack, the less open they'll be to that kind of change.

This is essentially what I wanted to point out. It won't change immediately, or even quickly, especially w/o outside support. Education and openness are needed, though it's obviously difficult when frequent acts of senseless violence cloud the issue.

View original postI think the Muslims in the United States are more tolerant because they are richer and better educated, more than anything else. Simple economic factors explain why the Muslim immigrants who could afford to go as far as the US have thrived there, much more so than the ones who couldn't afford to go further than Europe - but, from there, can easily return to their homelands on a yearly basis, and in so doing voluntarily place themselves in a kind of neither-here-nor-there position.

And this. Money, education, real access to people who aren't like them, money.

View original postThey can and must keep saying it: not in our name, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFBQEjghDOw">this is not us</a>, we as the silent majority of believers deny that this is the real Islam. But as a statement of intention, a spur to action, not as a way of denying the problem.

And yes again. Yes, please.

View original postI think you're conflating issues there that can't be resolved in the same way or at the same time. Ending terrorism and religiously motivated murder is a more concrete, short term goal than generally changing people's mindsets and having them embrace pluralism and full freedom of religion and expression - those last ones seem more like something happening across generations.

We were allowed to learn this way; as much as we might want to put a stop to the violence now, it just won't work w/o time and acceptance/inclusion of those who aren't committing the violence. It has to be seen and condemned from within those communities as a real offense and a crime, rather than an option for martyrdom.

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So guys, what about Paris? Tom - 10/01/2015 02:00:10 AM 1391 Views

Completely agree. wooly - 10/01/2015 05:39:53 AM 763 Views

Agree with some things. Not all. Legolas - 10/01/2015 10:56:59 AM 1238 Views

Yeah. nossy - 10/01/2015 01:17:52 PM 784 Views

Meh. Nobody's going to do anything about it. *NM* ßelals Girl - 10/01/2015 07:04:26 PM 361 Views

Re: So guys, what about Paris? DomA - 11/01/2015 04:18:35 AM 1176 Views

That article was awesome Tom - 11/01/2015 05:26:46 AM 818 Views

the Google translation is not great, but it gets the point across. *NM* nossy - 11/01/2015 09:51:29 AM 349 Views

Re: That article was awesome DomA - 12/01/2015 04:59:54 PM 911 Views

That article has some issues. Legolas - 12/01/2015 07:43:04 PM 755 Views

You're still a bit of an apologist for the ills of the Muslim world. Tom - 12/01/2015 11:27:18 PM 818 Views

I don't think so. I see them clear enough, I just see the other factors too. Legolas - 13/01/2015 06:55:49 PM 715 Views

It's all such a big mess, and I am getting increasingly pessimistic about it ironclad - 11/01/2015 11:21:45 AM 997 Views

What is the problem with Pegida? Tom - 12/01/2015 11:37:49 PM 792 Views

Everything ironclad - 13/01/2015 08:41:17 AM 1164 Views

Those 19 points do look fairly reasonable, agreed. Legolas - 13/01/2015 07:08:13 PM 752 Views

Arguendo, if they raise a valid point shouldn't it be addressed? Tom - 14/01/2015 02:59:28 PM 720 Views

Yeah, it should. Legolas - 14/01/2015 08:02:19 PM 722 Views

Yes ironclad - 15/01/2015 11:42:58 AM 991 Views

That's what you get when it's cool to corner Israel AgentApple - 11/01/2015 05:33:56 PM 801 Views

The left has no problem with that same narrative applied to Christianity Cannoli - 11/01/2015 11:04:55 PM 783 Views

For the record... Legolas - 12/01/2015 07:20:35 PM 720 Views

It's a bit disingenuous on Nasrallah's part Tom - 12/01/2015 11:34:02 PM 722 Views

Re: It's a bit disingenuous on Nasrallah's part DomA - 13/01/2015 02:40:55 AM 925 Views

Charlie Hebdo's next week cover DomA - 13/01/2015 03:00:13 AM 1238 Views

That magazine will sell out in an hour even with the incredibly high print issue. Tom - 13/01/2015 03:19:16 AM 754 Views

Indeed DomA - 13/01/2015 05:17:56 PM 876 Views

Finally it will be only 300 copies distributed in the USA DomA - 14/01/2015 01:24:45 PM 902 Views

I love that. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 13/01/2015 06:14:36 PM 356 Views

The world will always have assholes Roland00 - 18/01/2015 03:20:52 AM 744 Views

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<quote id="286619">
<quote id="286618">Those in the West did too, not that long ago, even if the more extreme kinds like witch-burning are rather longer ago. These are things that of course have to change, here the silent majority has to change its view, but you can't expect them to change overnight, and the more Muslims have the impression that their religion is under attack, the less open they'll be to that kind of change. </quote>
This is essentially what I wanted to point out. It won't change immediately, or even quickly, especially w/o outside support. Education and openness are needed, though it's obviously difficult when frequent acts of senseless violence cloud the issue.

<quote id="286618">I think the Muslims in the United States are more tolerant because they are richer and better educated, more than anything else. Simple economic factors explain why the Muslim immigrants who could afford to go as far as the US have thrived there, much more so than the ones who couldn't afford to go further than Europe - but, from there, can easily return to their homelands on a yearly basis, and in so doing voluntarily place themselves in a kind of neither-here-nor-there position. </quote>
And this. Money, education, real access to people who aren't like them, money.

<quote id="286618">They can and must keep saying it: not in our name, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFBQEjghDOw">this is not us</a>, we as the silent majority of believers deny that this is the real Islam. But as a statement of intention, a spur to action, not as a way of denying the problem. </quote>
And yes again. Yes, please.

<quote id="286618">I think you're conflating issues there that can't be resolved in the same way or at the same time. Ending terrorism and religiously motivated murder is a more concrete, short term goal than generally changing people's mindsets and having them embrace pluralism and full freedom of religion and expression - those last ones seem more like something happening across generations. </quote>
We were allowed to learn this way; as much as we might want to put a stop to the violence now, it just won't work w/o time and acceptance/inclusion of those who aren't committing the violence. It has to be seen and condemned from within those communities as a real offense and a crime, rather than an option for martyrdom. 
</quote>

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