Active Users:206 Time:18/05/2024 10:11:34 AM
Re: MY THOUGHTS ON THE 2016 ELECTIONS Cannoli Send a noteboard - 10/11/2016 08:07:55 PM


Thought I'd cross-post here from FB...

MY THOUGHTS ON THE 2016 ELECTIONS

I voted for Gary Johnson. He truly was a candidate for change. He'd held office in New Mexico as a successful governor. He was a Republican who left that party when they left him. He'd never been a Washington insider. He didn't fit neatly into the left/right paradigm.


Except for the name and governor bit, this pretty much describes Trump.
I also agreed with many of his stances. They all flowed from one basic premise: more personal freedom, less state interference. We are not servants of the state, the state serves us. It shouldn't use its power to coerce our fellow citizens to serve us, either. He wasn't a perfect candidate nor is he a perfect person. But he was and is a decent candidate, a decent person.

Wow, that comparison broke down fast. Never mind, go on.
The Republicans and the Democrats, the media, they all dismissed him. The worst they could say about him was to try to insinuate that too much marijuana had addled him. They didn't want to debate his ideas. They're scared of his ideas.
Aaaaand, we're back.
Gary Johnson was never going to win this election. Things are too stacked in favor of the R/D duopoly. All the pundits howled that a vote for him, or Jill Stein, was a vote for the R/D candidate they didn't like. No. Those votes were for Jill Stein. They were for Gary Johnson. The people who voted third party didn't want what was offered and chose something else. All those who decry third parties and say I wasted my vote: if all you Clinton supporters had voted for Gary Johnson, he'd be president. Better than Trump, I'd say. Think on that. If you hadn't voted "team", maybe you wouldn't be so dismayed today.
Yes! I once said that my ideal election outcome was to start seeing the major party candidate lose by the margin of a third party vote. I'd love to see the GOP candidate lose by the margin of the Constitution Party's gain, or the Libertarian Party's, or the Democrat lose by the margin of the Green Party (or Libertarian, depending on the flavor - one thing I would not like about the libertarians gaining parity with the other two parties is that they would start fracturing into right and left types, who are more interested in cutting taxes and regulations, vs liberalizing social mores). I have only ever voted for third party candidates in the general election.
What do I think about the actual result? I'm glad Donald Trump won over Hillary Clinton. Make no mistake, I think they are both awful people. If we see the same Donald Trump on the international stage that we saw for much of this election, it will be a shameful sight. But with Trump, there is actually a chance that I'll get something I like. With Clinton, there was no chance. She believes in ever bigger government interference in our lives. She believes in expanding taxes and regulations, among many other things. But, on top of that, she isn't a decent person. In her own way, she's as deplorable as he is. In some ways, worse.
I didn't bother parsing that stuff out. What I prefer about the Trump win has a lot to do with your assessment of a Clinton presidency, but also the malicious and mendacious way this campaign was conducted. There are plenty of valid and legitimate reasons to oppose Donald Trump or prefer other candidates. There was no need for the wave of deliberate media misrepresentation of his positions and comments. Had John McCain actually campaigned hard against Barack Obama, he'd have received similar treatment, and the one good thing Trump has done has been to force them to show their true colors. They are so tone deaf to anything outside their echo chamber, they didn't see how they only gained him support, because people aren't THAT stupid, and could see exactly what was going on. Their grasp of racism has a lot more to do with slavery, lynchings and unequal laws, and not much sympathy for double standards of treatment based on ancestral sufferings.
Donald Trump said many awful things during his campaign. He has impugned women,
Give me a quote during the campaign impugning women, that doesn't rely on the worst possible and crudest interpretation of off-the-cuff remarks.
the disabled,

The only possible context I can think of in this is concerning his mockery of a reporter, Serge Kovaleski, who lied about his own story when Trump cited in reference to Muslims celebrating 9/11. Kovaleski's disability bears no resemblance to Trump's mockery, while Trump used similar mockery against Ted Cruz, who is not remotely disabled.
minorities both racial and religious.
When Mohammed is the most common name in the world, you have to rethink the meaning of the concept of "religious minority." Not to mention, the sheer number of crimes committed by Muslims, in the name of their religion, just during the current administration alone, would have witch hunts in the USA if any other group had a similar track record. Under Barack Obama, Muslims have murdered more random people, than abortionists have been killed since Roe Vs Wade. Where are all the calls for tolerance and understanding for the pro-life people, for the Christians and other such groups? The knee jerk reaction of our last two presidents to violence committed by Muslims in the name of their religion has been to demand tolerance and forgiveness for Muslims at large. While the entire white race is demonized when a police officer defends himself against a criminal who happens to be black.

The complaints of racism have long passed the point of the boy who cried wolf, and absolutely nonsensical claims were made of Trump in that regard.


What kind of things did she do? She lies about things, big and small. Things done in her official capacity. To thwart the Freedom of Information Act, she set up her own email server then lied and perjured herself about it. Her staff lied and perjured and destroyed evidence. The act itself was a crime and the acts committed to cover it up were even more serious crimes. She's venal to the point of turning the Secretary of State's office into a bazaar to the highest seller, even betraying her oath of office for bribes, er "donations".

Next to which "possible ties" to Putin don't mean all that much.
On the more practical side of things, he's also imminently impeachable. He has no power base in the House and Senate. He has a few allies and the Republicans will work with him, but they won't love him. At least not the him that would need impeaching. They would impeach and, along with the Democrats, remove him. That would never happen with the Democrats. There is nothing that Clinton could do that would make the Democrats side against her. She would have been virtually untouchable, just as her boss has proven untouchable. Except, on occasion, by the Supreme Court which has slapped him down.

We've had eight years of a president falling back on specious claims of racism upon encountering any opposition or resistance. We don't need another four or eight years of a president doing the same thing with sexism. And that is exactly the sort of implacable base of support, over and above partisan politics, that would interfere with Clinton's removal.
The media buoyed Trump at every turn until he secured the Republican nomination. Then they turned on him. They will never enable him again. Clinton, on the other hand, had the media in her back pocket. They enabled her. Covered for her. Lied for her. So, again, an important check for Trump isn't in place for Clinton.

Hear, hear!
I am amused to see the disgust by Democrats today with the Electoral College when just days ago we were being treated to Democrats crowing that the vaunted "Blue Firewall" would prevent Trump from winning even if he won the popular vote. That wall crumbled and revealed yet another issue on which they are rank hypocrites.
Nobody remembers or admits this, but it was also believed to be a possibility in 2000, where they thought Bush could win the popular vote and lose the electoral vote. The editors of at least one conservative publication were preparing a defense of the electoral college for their presumably about-to-be-disappointed readership in the event of that outcome. So at least some people are not hypocrites about it.
Speaking of hypocrisy, how about all those Republicans embracing Trump months ago but before when under BIll Clinton, we were told Mr Clinton’s vile character mattered and should disqualify him from office? I guess only the character of your opponent matters.
And it flips around. Really, the hypocrisy here is worse on the part of the Democrats. They started with the whole sexual harassment thing, which they invented in ginned up into a crime because they couldn't credibly call Clarence Thomas racist (they have been doing that for over 20 years, but they knew no one would listen), according to their usual playbook. Then, early in his first term, Bill Clinton, as commander-in-chief of the US military, presided over the firings and courts-martial of a number of otherwise respected officers for actions of similar nature, or even nebulous connections to others committing such behavior. IIRC, at least one admiral was targeted merely because he made a brief appearance at the Tailhook convention, despite not having anything to do with the carrying-on. After all of that, Clinton got caught at the worst of that sort of behavior. The Democrats then insisted that such things didn't matter, they were personal, and had nothing to do with the conduct of his official duties. In point of fact, similar offenses had been the basis for numerous impeachments for "high crimes and misdemeanors" in the past. To any honest legal scholar or anyone familiar with the history of that charge, Clinton's behavior was precisely what the framers of the Constitution sought to make grounds for impeachment.

All Republicans are doing with Trump is accepting the Democrat's assertions in defense of Clinton. They are moving on, and accepting that times have changed. They dumped Mark Sanford, they bailed on Jack Ryan, for matters relating to marital sexual relations. The worst thing Jack Ryan was accused of, was asking his wife for sex, and accepting her refusal. But the GOP, sticking to their guns, disowned their candidate, which resulted in Barack Obama reaching the national stage. The hypocrisy is the Democrats having the temerity to attack Trump for behavior as a private citizen, that they defended taking place in the Oval Office, which was also the subject of one of Hillary Clinton's more infamous & knowing lies, that Bill was innocent and the victim of a vast conspiracy. What is the Democrats' justification? That we have moved on to MORE victorian behavior, that we have much higher standards of acceptable sexual conduct? Why do people who sneer that Clinton's affairs were acceptable because they were between consenting adults, get upset at a man's whose worst indiscretion was saying that women "will LET YOU...." engage in whatever Clintonian debauchery you wish?

The Republicans have simply become more tolerant, they have not walked back their claims of acceptable behavior.

Otherwise, very well said.

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Reply to message
MY THOUGHTS ON THE 2016 ELECTIONS - 10/11/2016 01:47:54 PM 911 Views
Yes - 10/11/2016 03:06:04 PM 592 Views
I know!!! - 10/11/2016 04:33:19 PM 620 Views
Very well said. *NM* - 10/11/2016 03:08:13 PM 245 Views
It's this....this right here.... - 10/11/2016 05:20:00 PM 579 Views
I manage to make a decent post every few years. *NM* - 11/11/2016 05:10:27 AM 311 Views
Thanks for that - much I agree with, much also not, but impressive post. - 10/11/2016 07:51:43 PM 560 Views
Well, thank you, my friend. I appreciate it. - 11/11/2016 05:09:40 AM 584 Views
Re: MY THOUGHTS ON THE 2016 ELECTIONS - 10/11/2016 08:07:55 PM 609 Views
Thankyou for this last tidbit to put the election to bed on ... - 11/11/2016 07:52:55 AM 733 Views
the first sensible thing i read about Trump election - 17/12/2016 02:51:23 PM 1091 Views

Reply to Message