Ah, sorry then. Yes, it was in reply to the improvements of BG2 to BG1.
		Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 05/05/2011 12:45:55 AM
		
	As far as the mages *shrug* if you don't like them, don't play them.
You kidding? Mages are awesome. I've played low level Mages throughout my D&D group's entire second edition era. But it's the truth that they suck at low levels (and that they're overpowered at high levels) and I was really the only one who was persistent enough in our group to actually endure the long wait to power (And they needed at least half again as much experience as any other class to level too, if I remember correctly. By the time your mage was level 2 the rogues was level 3
 )
)It's really that simple.  They're far from useless, they're just difficult to play at a low level. Unfortunately, I can't think of a great example to give to you as far as the side-stories (as I'm referring to them. They really ARE more like side quests in terms of length. I'm just referring to them as side stories because they have more to them than you're generic fetch/carry/kill. they're more interesting than that). I haven't played BG in a long while.  One set of interactions/quests I always liked was Minsc's quest to rescue his witch, her quest, and throwing Xzar into the mix  that was always great fun.
 that was always great fun.
 that was always great fun.
 that was always great fun.Dynaheir had a quest? Also, you're probably thinking of Edwin, not Xzar
 . And yes, quests involving NPCs, while few, were generally more interesting. But this is something that is specifically and undeniably better developed in Shadows of Amn.
. And yes, quests involving NPCs, while few, were generally more interesting. But this is something that is specifically and undeniably better developed in Shadows of Amn.You don't head out into the wilderness trying to find an employer  That's part of the "explorer/adventure" part, where you're just hoping to stumble on that damsel in distress, that big chest of gold in a cave, etc...etc...  And you don't head into the wilderness to find an employer in the game. Most of your quest givers are found in the cities and anyone who IS looking for them in the middle of the no where is rather silly.
 That's part of the "explorer/adventure" part, where you're just hoping to stumble on that damsel in distress, that big chest of gold in a cave, etc...etc...  And you don't head into the wilderness to find an employer in the game. Most of your quest givers are found in the cities and anyone who IS looking for them in the middle of the no where is rather silly.
 That's part of the "explorer/adventure" part, where you're just hoping to stumble on that damsel in distress, that big chest of gold in a cave, etc...etc...  And you don't head into the wilderness to find an employer in the game. Most of your quest givers are found in the cities and anyone who IS looking for them in the middle of the no where is rather silly.
 That's part of the "explorer/adventure" part, where you're just hoping to stumble on that damsel in distress, that big chest of gold in a cave, etc...etc...  And you don't head into the wilderness to find an employer in the game. Most of your quest givers are found in the cities and anyone who IS looking for them in the middle of the no where is rather silly.Except I'm specifically complaing about the ones that you do need to head out in the middle of nowhere to find. The fact that not every quest is like this is completely unrelated to the point. Those quests (and loot, and lore) do exist. Substantially. And that causes grinding and subsequently annoyance.
Yes, and one of the best "quests" throughout all games is assembling all the pantaloons into the armor of awesome ^_^
That's in Throne of Bhaal though
 . I've never done it however, as I recall one of the quests involved requires evil actions, and I've never played with a sufficiently evil party
. I've never done it however, as I recall one of the quests involved requires evil actions, and I've never played with a sufficiently evil party  .
.What exactly was the strawman there? The reference to fps games? I wasn't intending to pick on FPS games or anything. I'm just saying that if you DON'T want to spend time leveling, then that sort of game is probably best for you.
You implied that I was complaining that it was difficult. I did no such thing, I complained that it was tedious.
Have you ever played a PnP D&D game? The PnP games are what I refer to when I talk about "Real RPGs".  BG plays a lot like an old AD&D game, except a little easier because you don't have to think of EVERYTHING yourself and the visual aids and dialogue prompting guide you along.
See, I have played D&D since 2nd Edition and I've never had at any point a group of adventurers head out into the wilderness and start searching it in the hopes they would find a quest.
		The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
	
	
	
	
	
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
			So I gotta know if this is happening to anyone else...
	    
	         - 30/04/2011 01:22:24 AM
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			you must gather your party before venturing forth
	    
	         - 30/04/2011 10:16:34 AM
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			oh god....I hope that narrator makes lots of money. He DESERVES it
	    
	         - 30/04/2011 10:01:01 PM
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			This behaviour must not continue. Feel the burning stare of my HAMSTER and change your ways!
	    
	         - 30/04/2011 11:43:38 PM
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			the best.  Particularly since follow-ups having come CLOSE :rollups:
	    
	         - 01/05/2011 12:25:01 AM
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			To me, yes, but then I'm currently playing it, so not as odd.  - 01/05/2011 12:25:17 AM
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	         - 01/05/2011 12:25:17 AM
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	     - 01/05/2011 12:25:17 AM
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	         - 01/05/2011 12:25:17 AM
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			live by the sword live a good long time!
	    
	         - 01/05/2011 01:30:21 AM
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			I've never played the first one - sounds like there are some good lines there too. *NM*
	    
	         - 01/05/2011 09:44:48 PM
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			...how could you play the follow-ups without playing the first one?
	    
	         - 02/05/2011 01:18:12 AM
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			I never played BG1 and still REALLY enjoyed BG2. The story seemed a clean enough break to "get it."
	    
	         - 02/05/2011 01:14:23 PM
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			Yeah, exactly... I don't really feel the loss.
	    
	         - 02/05/2011 10:50:04 PM
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			to put it simply, you're wrong about the gameplay.
	    
	         - 03/05/2011 01:42:10 PM
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			It might clarify things a bit if I say I've never played tabletop RPGs.
	    
	         - 03/05/2011 10:21:34 PM
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			Baldur's Gate requires level grinding though.
	    
	         - 03/05/2011 11:47:30 PM
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			you don't grind
	    
	         - 04/05/2011 08:36:12 AM
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			Depends on your perspective I guess.
	    
	         - 04/05/2011 06:49:52 PM
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			so does every game, honestly. LIFE is level grinding.
	    
	         - 04/05/2011 10:15:26 AM
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			That's not true, and you know it's not true - you've talked about playing games that don't have it
	    
	         - 04/05/2011 01:18:51 PM
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			No. Specifically, I was commenting on Baldur's Gate compared to Shadows of Amn.
	    
	         - 04/05/2011 07:04:55 PM
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			I wasn't aware you were specifically comaring BG to SoA.
	    
	         - 04/05/2011 07:43:32 PM
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			Ah, sorry then. Yes, it was in reply to the improvements of BG2 to BG1.
		
	         - 05/05/2011 12:45:55 AM
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			Re: Ah, sorry then. Yes, it was in reply to the improvements of BG2 to BG1.
	    
	         - 05/05/2011 01:16:04 AM
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			Re: Ah, sorry then. Yes, it was in reply to the improvements of BG2 to BG1.
	    
	         - 05/05/2011 02:41:11 AM
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			Re: Ah, sorry then. Yes, it was in reply to the improvements of BG2 to BG1.
	    
	         - 05/05/2011 03:16:08 AM
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			I do have the impression that SoA (and certainly ToB) swings a bit the other way regarding mages.
	    
	         - 04/05/2011 09:40:12 PM
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			Yes. It's not the fault of the games though, they're using D&D rules, so it comes with the territory
	    
	         - 05/05/2011 12:25:21 AM
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			Diablo 1 is vastly superior to Diablo 2. Just saying.  *NM*
	    
	         - 03/05/2011 02:22:44 PM
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 *NM*
	    
	         - 03/05/2011 02:22:44 PM
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	     *NM*
	    
	         - 03/05/2011 02:22:44 PM
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 *NM*
	    
	         - 03/05/2011 02:22:44 PM
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			As I said I haven't  played the former, but I really rather doubt it.  *NM*
	    
	         - 03/05/2011 10:22:07 PM
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 *NM*
	    
	         - 03/05/2011 10:22:07 PM
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	     *NM*
	    
	         - 03/05/2011 10:22:07 PM
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 *NM*
	    
	         - 03/05/2011 10:22:07 PM
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			Diablo 1 wins in the story and atmosphere department.
	    
	         - 03/05/2011 10:37:30 PM
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			If you thought they both had a terrible gameplay...
	    
	         - 04/05/2011 09:41:46 PM
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			Because they're addicting and I'm exaggerating. I have completed both.
	    
	         - 04/05/2011 10:04:40 PM
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