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patience is rewarded Foxhead Send a noteboard - 05/05/2011 09:54:15 AM

But the point was not about the actual fighting and quest completing, which is usually ok, it's about having to go out to those wilderness area and then explore the crap out of them so you can actually find the quest givers or valuable kills. The clockwise square search pattern I used to explore those areas is one of the less fond memories I have of this otherwise great game

well i usually pair up a warrior and another and explore seperately then regroup if they run into trouble, so i can't comment. and you can't expect every area to be chocked with high level/interesting encounters and amazing items? that's far from realistic. the challenge and the rewards lie in exploration! and as you/someone said in another post talking to town criers and listening to rumours point you in right direction

and that's why it feels special when you find the crazy cleric +2 hammer of awesomeness and probably keep it till the end, unlike when you find it again in BG2 and it's not as good as the weapons you already have and it's either only good for gold to save up for some +6 monstrosity or simply leaving it behind.

And you need to find those quests for: 1- the experience, although granted you don't need to find them all for enough experience, but like I said quests are the better method of exp advancement, so you do need to go out and find them, 2- loot: you'll really never get a lot of the equipment you'd need unless you search these areas. And I'm not talking about the ridiculous stuff like the Friendly Arm's Ring of Wizardry, a lot of your gear'll likely come from killing bounty hunters or bandits randomly hanging out in the wilderness, 3- If you're a lore buff like me, you'll probably want to talk to everybody for that obsession. Otherwise you might never learn of Davaeorn's good brother or other interesting but useless stuff.

"shrouded in darkness waaaaaaaa!" yeah, pretty cool

again i'll have to point back to idea that you're rewarded for exploring.

also i think there's enough in the shops and on the main quest line to equip your party well. i don't remember there being any earth shattering from an obscure side quest

It makes it feel less real to me. There's a reason for that cliché about adventurers starting at a tavern. When you're looking for a quest, your best plan is not usually to head out into the wilderness hoping to find someone whose friend was killed by Ogres or whatever. In Baldur's Gate 2, you head out into the wilderness for a purpose, and might encounter other quests on the way, but they're played as actual random encounters. At no point do you go out scouring the Yukon with a comb in search of quest givers.

well like i said i think the fact that there isn't something amazing every hundred yards that makes it interesting and the effort you have to put in to find something makes it better, just my opinion. and see above about talking to people, which in fairness you did say you do

and i think there's enough in those rumours to find the better wilderness encounters.

in BG2 everything is handed to you on a plate. copper coronet, people seeking you out etc. though that perhaps is the nature of the series. in BG after all you're a nobody you aren't going to be asked to slay dragons because you'll get smushed! you've got more of a reputation in BG2

Not at low level they don't. 1 spell per day, 2 if you've specialised? Magic Missile does 1d4+1 damage, once per day. A fighter with a bastard sword does - if memory serves, it's been a while - 1d12+strength bonus, which can be as high as +4. Each round. Granted, he has a chance to miss, but still. Sleep and Charm Person are better, but they have a chance of failing outright at which point you've essentially lost your magical power for the day. And if you want Identify, well...

as i said, patience is rewarded. you can't have it all, it's quite typical of RPGs for mages to start weak, take longer to level but then be awesome at higher levels. you have to again put that effort in to get the most out of them. you have magic missle, acid arrow, fireball and a couple of useful defensive spells at a low level. you aren't going to raining heaven from the skies for pete's sake!

thieves level quickly, warriors steadily and mages slowly, it's known. and if you want identify...get a bard! bards are brilliant. actually in one playthrough i levelled a warrior to 4 then dual classed him to mage=high HP mage that swings a sword well and when out of spells puts on some armour...it was awesome!

Yes, of course. Eventually all quests will involve killing people. Although Baldur's Gate 2 had the Shadow Thieves' quest to accumulate a fortune of cash to pay their services or the Radiant Order's negotiation quests or the like, they still involve retrieving and killing at some point. But a lot of the quests in Baldur's Gate have nothing more. Retrieve the Flamedance Ring the Hobgoblins stole, kill the Spider infestation, kill the Ogre that stole that Gnome's belt, and that's just from the one location. None of these quests will lead to anything, or tell you anything about anyone or anything. You don't really feel like you've accomplished much from them either. In contrast, the quests in the Copper Coronet include getting duped by Firkraag, chain quests for various NPCs - Anomen, Korgan, Nalia - which are actual side stories and help develop those NPCs which will be adventuring with you, and a quest to free the gladiatorial slaves.

as i said before, in BG you're a nobody who's only really good (in people's opinion) for fetching and carrying. the quests become much more involved when you've made a bit of a name for youself when you reach the city of Baldur's Gate

i'm not saying that BG2 isn't good. it's bloody brilliant, even ToB is brilliant (despite being slightly linear) who doesn't love a half orc assassin who can take out ranked bosses with a single critical backstab?

but i think that BG has more merit than you credit it for and i think that it's still a better game than BG2 and i love to chat on about baldur's gate

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So I gotta know if this is happening to anyone else... LadyLorraine - 30/04/2011 01:22:24 AM 907 Views

I pretty much just hear... MightyYT - 30/04/2011 07:57:10 AM 610 Views

you must gather your party before venturing forth Foxhead - 30/04/2011 10:16:34 AM 582 Views

oh god....I hope that narrator makes lots of money. He DESERVES it LadyLorraine - 30/04/2011 10:01:01 PM 568 Views

This behaviour must not continue. Feel the burning stare of my HAMSTER and change your ways! beetnemesis - 30/04/2011 11:43:38 PM 646 Views

the best. Particularly since follow-ups having come CLOSE :rollups: LadyLorraine - 01/05/2011 12:25:01 AM 548 Views

go for the eyes boo, GO FOR THE EYES!!! (squeek, squeek) *NM* ianski - 09/05/2011 06:45:06 AM 256 Views

"Build more burrows." *NM* Zalis - 30/04/2011 11:28:59 PM 301 Views

To me, yes, but then I'm currently playing it, so not as odd.

Legolas - 01/05/2011 12:25:17 AM 562 Views

live by the sword live a good long time! Foxhead - 01/05/2011 01:30:21 AM 672 Views

Xzar!!! LadyLorraine - 01/05/2011 04:21:18 AM 571 Views

I've never played the first one - sounds like there are some good lines there too. *NM* Legolas - 01/05/2011 09:44:48 PM 270 Views

...how could you play the follow-ups without playing the first one? LadyLorraine - 02/05/2011 01:18:12 AM 588 Views

I never played BG1 and still REALLY enjoyed BG2. The story seemed a clean enough break to "get it." Zalis - 02/05/2011 01:14:23 PM 515 Views

i really recommend going back and playing BG1 then

LadyLorraine - 02/05/2011 04:19:21 PM 600 Views

Yeah, exactly... I don't really feel the loss. Legolas - 02/05/2011 10:50:04 PM 658 Views

BG1>BG2>tob Foxhead - 03/05/2011 09:37:31 AM 619 Views

You have more characters, but they don't participate as much. Fanatic-Templar - 03/05/2011 11:36:28 PM 588 Views

I certainly agree that SoA > ToB. Legolas - 04/05/2011 09:45:15 PM 565 Views

to put it simply, you're wrong about the gameplay. LadyLorraine - 03/05/2011 01:42:10 PM 627 Views

hi 5* *NM* Foxhead - 03/05/2011 02:16:17 PM 387 Views

BG was AD&D 2.0 and BGII was 2.5, right? *NM* Zalis - 03/05/2011 02:23:06 PM 280 Views

I believe so. Regardless, it doesn't really change much. LadyLorraine - 03/05/2011 04:19:46 PM 540 Views

It might clarify things a bit if I say I've never played tabletop RPGs. Legolas - 03/05/2011 10:21:34 PM 709 Views

Baldur's Gate requires level grinding though. Fanatic-Templar - 03/05/2011 11:47:30 PM 822 Views

you don't grind Foxhead - 04/05/2011 08:36:12 AM 662 Views

Depends on your perspective I guess. Fanatic-Templar - 04/05/2011 06:49:52 PM 626 Views

patience is rewarded Foxhead - 05/05/2011 09:54:15 AM 686 Views

Re: patience is rewarded Fanatic-Templar - 05/05/2011 07:31:01 PM 529 Views

so does every game, honestly. LIFE is level grinding. LadyLorraine - 04/05/2011 10:15:26 AM 630 Views

That's not true, and you know it's not true - you've talked about playing games that don't have it lord-of-shadow - 04/05/2011 01:18:51 PM 554 Views

by my definition of grinding, yes, games like BG don't have it. LadyLorraine - 04/05/2011 05:41:59 PM 637 Views

No. Specifically, I was commenting on Baldur's Gate compared to Shadows of Amn. Fanatic-Templar - 04/05/2011 07:04:55 PM 663 Views

I wasn't aware you were specifically comaring BG to SoA. LadyLorraine - 04/05/2011 07:43:32 PM 548 Views

Ah, sorry then. Yes, it was in reply to the improvements of BG2 to BG1. Fanatic-Templar - 05/05/2011 12:45:55 AM 639 Views

Re: Ah, sorry then. Yes, it was in reply to the improvements of BG2 to BG1. LadyLorraine - 05/05/2011 01:16:04 AM 581 Views

Re: Ah, sorry then. Yes, it was in reply to the improvements of BG2 to BG1. Fanatic-Templar - 05/05/2011 02:41:11 AM 623 Views

Re: Ah, sorry then. Yes, it was in reply to the improvements of BG2 to BG1. LadyLorraine - 05/05/2011 03:16:08 AM 582 Views

Apparently the archaeologist thing even happens twice, then... Legolas - 05/05/2011 08:45:59 PM 571 Views

I do have the impression that SoA (and certainly ToB) swings a bit the other way regarding mages. Legolas - 04/05/2011 09:40:12 PM 690 Views

Yes. It's not the fault of the games though, they're using D&D rules, so it comes with the territory Fanatic-Templar - 05/05/2011 12:25:21 AM 656 Views

ah, you found the game to be a grind? Foxhead - 05/05/2011 09:08:27 AM 711 Views

Diablo 1 is vastly superior to Diablo 2. Just saying.

*NM* lord-of-shadow - 03/05/2011 02:22:44 PM 389 Views

As I said I haven't played the former, but I really rather doubt it.

*NM* Legolas - 03/05/2011 10:22:07 PM 272 Views

Diablo 1 wins in the story and atmosphere department. lord-of-shadow - 03/05/2011 10:37:30 PM 612 Views

If you thought they both had a terrible gameplay... Legolas - 04/05/2011 09:41:46 PM 571 Views

Because they're addicting and I'm exaggerating. I have completed both. lord-of-shadow - 04/05/2011 10:04:40 PM 562 Views

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<quote id="205294">
<quote>But the point was not about the actual fighting and quest completing, which is usually ok, it's about having to go out to those wilderness area and then explore the crap out of them so you can actually find the quest givers or valuable kills. The clockwise square search pattern I used to explore those areas is one of the less fond memories I have of this otherwise great game</quote>

and that's why it feels special when you find the crazy cleric +2 hammer of awesomeness and probably keep it till the end, unlike when you find it again in BG2 and it's not as good as the weapons you already have and it's either only good for gold to save up for some +6 monstrosity or simply leaving it behind.

<quote>And you need to find those quests for: 1- the experience, although granted you don't need to find them <i>all</i> for enough experience, but like I said quests are the better method of exp advancement, so you do need to go out and find them, 2- loot: you'll really never get a lot of the equipment you'd need unless you search these areas. And I'm not talking about the ridiculous stuff like the Friendly Arm's Ring of Wizardry, a lot of your gear'll likely come from killing bounty hunters or bandits randomly hanging out in the wilderness, 3- If you're a lore buff like me, you'll probably want to talk to everybody for that obsession. Otherwise you might never learn of Davaeorn's good brother or other interesting but useless stuff. </quote>

"shrouded in darkness waaaaaaaa!" yeah, pretty cool :P

again i'll have to point back to idea that you're rewarded for exploring.

also i think there's enough in the shops and on the main quest line to equip your party well. i don't remember there being any earth shattering from an obscure side quest

<quote>It makes it feel less real to me. There's a reason for that cliché about adventurers starting at a tavern. When you're looking for a quest, your best plan is not usually to head out into the wilderness hoping to find someone whose friend was killed by Ogres or whatever. In Baldur's Gate 2, you head out into the wilderness for a purpose, and might encounter other quests on the way, but they're played as actual random encounters. At no point do you go out scouring the Yukon with a comb in search of quest givers.</quote>

in BG2 everything is handed to you on a plate. copper coronet, people seeking you out etc. though that perhaps is the nature of the series. in BG after all you're a nobody you aren't going to be asked to slay dragons because you'll get smushed! you've got more of a reputation in BG2

<quote>Not at low level they don't. 1 spell per day, 2 if you've specialised? Magic Missile does 1d4+1 damage, once per day. A fighter with a bastard sword does - if memory serves, it's been a while - 1d12+strength bonus, which can be as high as +4. Each round. Granted, he has a chance to miss, but still. Sleep and Charm Person are better, but they have a chance of failing outright at which point you've essentially lost your magical power for the day. And if you want Identify, well...</quote>

thieves level quickly, warriors steadily and mages slowly, it's known. and if you want identify...get a bard! bards are brilliant. actually in one playthrough i levelled a warrior to 4 then dual classed him to mage=high HP mage that swings a sword well and when out of spells puts on some armour...it was awesome!

<quote>Yes, of course. Eventually all quests will involve killing people. Although Baldur's Gate 2 had the Shadow Thieves' quest to accumulate a fortune of cash to pay their services or the Radiant Order's negotiation quests or the like, they still involve retrieving and killing at some point. But a lot of the quests in Baldur's Gate have nothing more. Retrieve the Flamedance Ring the Hobgoblins stole, kill the Spider infestation, kill the Ogre that stole that Gnome's belt, and that's just from the one location. None of these quests will lead to anything, or tell you anything about anyone or anything. You don't really feel like you've accomplished much from them either.  In contrast, the quests in the Copper Coronet include getting duped by Firkraag, chain quests for various NPCs - Anomen, Korgan, Nalia - which are actual side stories and help develop those NPCs which will be adventuring with you, and a quest to free the gladiatorial slaves.</quote>

i'm not saying that BG2 isn't good. it's bloody brilliant, even ToB is brilliant (despite being slightly linear) who doesn't love a half orc assassin who can take out ranked bosses with a single critical backstab?

but i think that BG has more merit than you credit it for and i think that it's still a better game than BG2 and i love to chat on about baldur's gate :P
</quote>

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