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Watching the WoT show. Episode 1 (spoilers) Cannoli Send a noteboard - 19/11/2021 03:38:38 AM

00:15-00:30 - "The arrogance.. And the women of the Aes Sedai were left to pick up the pieces."

This is going to be a problem going forward. There's already a problem with the books, where readers accept at face value the characters' assertion that men don't want to marry a woman who can handle them like a child with the One Power. It's clear in the context where we see many female channelers having good relationships with mundane male partners, that the White Tower is just rationalizing their own isolation from the rest of the world. So is this just Moiraine and the White Tower using their bullshit to justify their own policies, or is it the through line of the series? It could, however, be a legit interpretation of Moiraine's lecture to Egwene in EotW about the men who broke the world, so IDK.

03:45 - "Four ta'veren" Screw this bullshit, if she does not turn out to be wrong. Not to mention in the books, Moiraine herself says she was only expecting one. How the hell would she even HEAR about "four" ta'veren? Anyone who learned something like that would be all over the issue, not just passing along the rumors! "All the right age" Egwene and Nynaeve are years apart from the three boys. Less than a month was enough to disqualify two other boys their age from the search. In New Spring, a few DAYS eliminated one baby.

And anticipating the ad hominem response from the dipshits out there, I don’t believe ta’veren is a power or elevated status. My distaste for Egwne’s personality has no bearing on this issue (not least because I’d feel the exact same about Nynaeve, whom I have defended emphatically and often on this and other fora). Egwene’s role and arc are nothing like the other three. She is all about her White Tower stuff, and has little to no effect on anyone else or the rest of the world. Tuon, for example, could also not be a ta’veren because she affects nothing much outside the Seanchan. Nynaeve, meanwhile, operates on a different scale. Even things like rallying the Malkier are not ta’veren-type things. She was just making them be Malkieri, the way Egwene works to bring out the best of the Tower and Tuon the Seanchan. The ta’veren CHANGE things. The ta’veren introduce new concepts, not just practical reforms. They break the paradigm. Egwene and Tuon and Nynaeve work within the system, figuratively speaking. Though each is a rebel or revolutionary in some ways (given his plans for a sequel set in Seanchan, I am pretty sure RJ intended Tuon to be a player in a da’covale & a’dam revolution/reformation down the road), they are people who rearrange the box in which they operate. The ta’veren break the boxes and make new ones. The multi-national coalitions Perrin & Mat are leading in KoD are a synecdoche for what Rand will assemble for Tarmon Gaidon. Whereas the girls might be doing something superficially similar, it’s through established institutions, like Malkier, the Tower, Seanchan conquests and the laws of succession in Andor & Cairhien.

04:00 - What little I've seen, I do like Moiraine & Lan's performances. Physically, they are horribly cast, but it's good enough to go with.

5:07 - I kind of like the idea of a ceremony and invocation to go with the braid-awarding. It's just too bad that they could not come up with anything better than a bunch of of mystic-sounding mumbo-jumbo bullshit. And while superficially it seems like they missed the point that the Women's Circle is the governing body, and not the adult female population, it also makes sense that it could be a women-only secret that ALL women are in the Circle, not just the "elders" who are publicly acknowledged as such. We know that the actual Two Rivers women have things they keep secret from the men, like their sexual mores.

And it gives some context to the cliff-pushing scene, even if it would have been more satisfying as a surprise, by Egwene's apparently resting smug-face. But it's a really stupid & out-of-character ritual/test thing.

07:10 - There is no progress in the Two Rivers! The road has not improved in their lifetimes! if anything, it should be fading. Although, not really, because I think the implication in the books is that the Two Rivers is a relatively healthy society, essentially being quarantined from the problems afflicting the rest of the world with stagnation. But the isolation and lack of development is a THING for a reason! Not to idealize it, but for Perrin to change with his leadership. Bad enough to make up an extra ta'veren who serves no purpose in the story, but let's also take away one of the canonical manifestations REALLY proving that we have no damn idea what ta'veren means!

07:30 - The thing with the wolves almost makes sense. This in no way looks like the tag end of a bitterly cold winter that has not actually let up yet, and they're clinging to the calendar 's definition of springtime out of a desperate hope it's coming. So the wolves are instead a hint that there is something bad coming out of the mountains. Except of course for the fact that wolves HUNT Trollocs. They are animals, who don’t have concepts really of the future, except in the vaguest terms, so they don’t think about strategic retreats. If Twisted Ones and Neverborn are around, the wolves are going after them. If there are too many for their pack to take down, other wolves are going to come, until someone confirms the Twisted Ones are dead.

If wolves run from Shadowspawn, that’s another piece of significance you’re taking away from Perrin! Setting aside their lack of utility at Tarmon Gaidon, Perrin’s identity crisis is that he’s afraid of losing his rationality and human reasoning! He’s afraid that he will become like a wolf, and that manifests when he goes hell-for-leather at a Myrdraal like a wolf would, instead of fighting smart like a human!

07:45 – I am getting cognitive dissonance from Michael McElhatton’s Santa beard.

07:50 – Hey, where’s the WIND?!?!?!?

09:10 – Perrin’s married. His wife is going to get killed. This should be REALLY interesting! The question is, on Winternight, or is he going to come home later to find her dead?

09:20 – Okay “down to Taren Ferry” makes sense topographically. People don’t always use up or down to refer to north and south. But there are armies heading SOUTH from Taren Ferry? The only thing SOUTH of Taren Ferry is the rest of the Two Rivers.

09:35 – So they are going to address Mat’s distinctive superficial character traits by making him gross. And something close to a gambling addict. You don’t need to have him so desperate for another game to convey the difference when his luck power kicks in.

10:05 – That the whole village blows smoke up Egwene’s ass explains a lot of her personality issues. In the book, she was making more of a big deal about her braid than anyone else was. A standing ovation, because, what? She managed not to die all these years while under the care of responsible adults?

For the record, Egwene in the books, got her braid late. Though not as late as some, it was later than the normal age and notably late for someone who was determined to get it younger than anyone else, ever. But according to Moiraine & Lan, the ta’veren candidates are 20. Not 17. So if Egwene is one of them, she’s four years behind the curve. That’s like graduating high school at 22. Like getting out of Hogwarts at 21. Maybe the applause is sarcastic.

Oo, oo, ooh! What if Perrin’s wife is the fourth and it’s a big thing that she gets killed!

10:15 – Damn, stocky, fat bald sexagenarians are sexy in TV Emond’s Field.

10:20 – I like the little sad smile from Nynaeve, because she doesn’t have a dad anymore.

10:25 – Since when are the Coplins and Congars friendly? Since when are they the sort to buy a round? Is this show’s idea of showing how unpleasant they are going to be restricted to shaming them for drinking?

10:30 – And Nynaeve is toasting and quaffing. What, the, actual, fxck.

10:50 – Not to get all real-worldy, but farming communities do not spend a whole festival day in the bar, when there is plenty of sunshine, and the weather is warm enough not to require outerwear.

11:10 – “How did the ceremony go today?” Perrin, the whole female population was cheering and celebrating. That should be a clue. Also, she came back ALIVE, which, from what we see of the ceremony is probably not 100% guaranteed. That should tell you all you need to know without needing to ask her possibly estranged boyfriend.

11:43 – I don’t know if the Two Rivers folk are being uncharacteristically hostile to someone who just came into an INN out of the RAIN (two factors that alone make his behavior thus far completely normal and to-be-expected, and not the kind of thing inspiring you to put a hand to hilt in anticipation of trouble, or if it’s just a way to show how insular the village is, that strangers are not a normal thing. In the books, they found Thom’s arriving late at night to be suspicious or rude, as if he was a friendly visitor who should come at a considerate time, rather than a customer or hired professional. OTOH, they see strangers as fascinating and a cause for celebration. There mere presence of three people no one knows are enough to make this the potentially best Bel Tine ever.

11:46 – Lan “mun-DRAG-or-in”. WTF?

11:58 – Moiraine’s entrance (not to mention Egwene’s, earlier) makes more sense in context than how it looked in the trailers. OTOH it feels like they are trying to have their cake and eat it too. The promotional material suggests she is the focal character, but they also want her to be the mysterious stranger viewed from the perspective of the hobbits Two Rivers folk.

12:05 – Walking by Nynaeve without eye contact is a nice touch.

12:15 - Damnit Marin, the ring was supposed to keep things discreet! Also, the Aes Sedai bit was supposed to be a secret, because it makes people nervous and a place like the Two Rivers would clam up if she started asking prying questions about their neighbors.

13:17 – Yes, Nynaeve, tell the blacksmith how his job works. Actually, that kind of works with her early perception as a controlling pain in the ass.

13:40 – Yeah, baby, stoke those bellows. Show Faile how it’s done.

13:50 – Maybe it’s different if you’re married, but touching someone like that when they are working has a kind of creepy vibe. But I want to know all about the future late Mistress Aybara. Who looks like she escaped the set of Vikings.

14:30 – Is this degradation of the Cauthon family necessary? Some of us like Abell. It’s a thing that Mat looks up to him! You don’t need to shit on his parents to show Mat has a good side. This is just such lazy, short-hand characterization. "Oh the guy we think is a jerk has a tragic family history."

16:00 – I am going to laugh my ass off if the scene people on social media have been assuming is post-coital is just them relaxing after finishing up the dishes.

16:10 – Egwene really does spend most of the series avoiding her Two Rivers compatriots.

16:15 – And as I suspected, the woman ceremonies ARE secret from the men, making Perrin asking Rand even dumber.

16:53 – Rand does not do surprise kisses. Rand needs a gold-engraved invitation for PDA. In a relationship that’s clearly going through an awkward phase, where they seem uncertain where they stand, that would especially be the case.

17:40 – Is she talking about the berry?

17:53 – Moiraine, WTF are you, bathing in? It looks like when my mother would forget to put the wheelbarrow** away after pulling weeds, and it would fill up with rain and become this vegetable soup-like mess. Or the kiddie pool that would fill up with grass from jumping in and out of it with wet feet.

** given the subject matter, I reflexively capitalized Wheel at first

18:02 – A Malkieri man and a Cairhienin woman would NOT bathe together unless they were doing it! No, this is just WRONG. Especially not in a tub that was just used by half a dozen Nym.

18:15 – Lan saying a bath in the Two Rivers could be warmer is like a guy from Alaska complaining about the temperature in Jersey. Also, Lan does not ever complain, even if he had to take a bath on the Ross Shelf.

18:45 – I’ve seen Rosamund Pike jam a wine bottle up her hoo-ha to fake rape trauma, and the bits of plant stuck to her somehow seem more off-putting.

18:55 – “What is it?” I think I’m sitting on a thorn.

19:15 – Ah. So they were playing hide the Dragon Scepter, after all.

19:25 – Canonically confirmed, Egwene is boring in the sack. Not surprising, really.

20:08 – Rand’s problem with Egwene being the Wisdom was not about himself, it was that he found it ridiculous for Egwene, because it’s a job for life, currently being held by a 24-year-old, and he knows that’s not how she operates. Then he had a problem when she confirmed it and said she wanted to move away to find a post. Celibacy was NOT a thing! Daise Congar, Nynaeve’s replacement, has a husband. Why would it even be a job requirement?

It looks like they’re altering this for no reason other than to make Egwene “right” in this argument, while incidentally messing with her characterization. Egwene would have no hesitation. Onward and upward is her thing (which is why Rand laughed at the idea of her serving a 50-year apprenticeship). If you can’t keep up with her, she’ll move on. This is, like it or not about her, one of her most important aspects, that informs so much of her relationships and choices in the story! But they decided to just make her worried and Rand butt-hurt even after she specifically says she was asked, and hasn’t accepted.

And if the Two Rivers is cool with extramarital sex, why is the Wisdom celibate? This is the problem with changing things out of character favoritism or convenience – you disrupt everything connected to it.

21:23 – British accents aside, they have a rather odd mix of Anglo and American slang. “Mum” and “Guys” being two examples.

22:30 – THIS IS NOT MAT. He MIGHT have stolen from a neighbor to buy his sisters food. But not freaking TOYS.

23:00 – Moiraine and Lan already KNOW the Shadowspawn are there?!

24:27 – Okay, I was wrong. This might actually be an improvement on how Rand’s & Egwene’s relationship was done in the books. The understanding and acceptance is a better explanation for Rand’s reaction than being pissy about his feewings being hurted. Of course, by the books’ society, it makes Egwene a dirty rake and cad who besmirched Rand’s virtue when she had no intention of doing right by him, so it’s going be amusing if the results of their tampering is to make their world MORE patriarchal than the books.

24:45 – “This pool is sacred. It’s an honor to clean it.” It’s also outdoors and a natural feature, making cleaning it somewhat pointless.

27:05 – The Nynaeve-Moiraine conversation works when you bear in mind they are trying to keep the Dragon’s identity a mystery, but the whole White Tower thing is bullshit. It might work if the old Wisdom who raised Nynaeve, but whose name Nynaeve can’t be bothered to use, turns out to have been lying, but even then, it makes Listening to the Wind a known manifestation of the Power.

Identity and self-perception is an important theme in these books! That she can channel should come as an utter shock to Nynaeve, that upends everything she thinks she knows about herself! This was my objection to non-white Two Rivers people, that Rand should absolutely believe without a shadow of doubt that he is the biological son of Tam. If he is markedly different from the rest of his neighbors to the degree that it’s not plausible he is a half-breed (as a pale-skinned red head would not be in Africa or India or East Asia or the pre-civilized New World), then news that Tam found him as a baby does not land with the same impact. BTW, this doesn’t necessarily go for Nynaeve, given that ITB she did have issues of isolation and estrangement from her neighbors. But that’s because of her dedication to her duties and role and coming to it too young, with her authority being challenged, not because she’s known as an outsider who is desperately trying to fit in. Speaking of those duties, after several scenes of Nynaeve in her role as Wisdom, we are not super clear what that job is, much less that it’s the equal of the mayor. Given real world preconceptions, it could easily be seen as a peripheral clerical role. Especially with the pointless celibacy.

27:10 - I also feel like Perrin would not be spending so much time away from his wife, drinking with his buddies. Not because of his ITB preoccupations with Faile, which are at least in part due to every other member of his family being dead, but because it’s undutiful.

28:10 – So Listening to the Wind is literal. I guess when the Sea Folk teach Elayne to handle weather (Cloud Dancing), it’s going to involve actual dance moves?

28:57 – I was first thinking, ‘why is Lan looking for Shadowspawn tracks when he has already sensed them, instead of doing something constructive like warning the villagers?” And it turns out it’s even more stupid. They have killed sheep and left the corpses in the shape of a Dragon’s Fang!
A. How did they get away with it? Sheep are super important to the Two Rivers people who would be guarding them. That’s what a shepherd is FOR. Shouldn’t a Two Rivers person have been the one to find them?
B. Why would they leave anything edible? If they are in a hurry, why make artistic shapes, especially when only a Draghkar could see what they did?

29:42 – I’m going to give all the benefit of the doubt and assuming Moiraine is both eavesdropping on the boys with the Power and also preparing village-wide wards against Shadowspawn.

30:45 – Necessary exposition regarding the life-rebirth cycle and Wheel. Especially since WoT Novices (we need a good name for those who have not read the books; for GoT, I understand they were often called Unsullied) probably have no idea why it’s even called “Wheel of Time”.

31:05 – And good context for Tam’s trailer line, where before it looked like a substitute for his commentary on the resilience of the Two Rivers folk.

Then again, if you have to explain to your twenty-year-old son during an annually-performed ritual for the dead how the afterlife works, you’ve probably failed as a parent somewhere along the line.

32:37 – If Emond’s Field has a four-piece band, why even is Thom?

33:08 – Also fuck everyone who complained about Jordan putting superfluous detail in the story. He didn’t make us sit through actual dancing and Bel Tine festivals before the shadowspawn showed up.

And, just for the record, the Bel Tine practices seem much better suited to Sa Ven or what the WoT-quivalent of Samhain is.

Though, come to think of it, in a culture that believes in practical reincarnation to the point that the return of an historical figure is a really big deal, maybe the springtime festival IS a better time for it.

33:25 – More dancing. You’d think THIS is what would have been on the page and cut for the screen.

33:59 – Why?!?! Trollocs like dramatic surprise? There is a REASON Jordan did it the way he did! Because it WORKS! You don’t see the Trollocs because there is a door there! Not because they sneaked up to throw a spiked mace through the torso of the miller’s son without making any noise until he fell over! And this slight wispy-built guy gets hit in the back by a mace or axe or whatever and is NOT thrown violently forward, he just collapses like he was run through by a rapier?

34:17 – Maybe they are trying to show Egwene protecting people, but it just looks silly, like she’s distracted during a game of duck-duck-goose. I mean, it is a character trait of hers to assume that kind of responsibility that she is in no way capable of carrying out, but come on. Make sure there is someone behind you before volunteering yourself as a human shield.

34:45 – The Trollocs appear to be having more difficulty killing the villagers than I would expect. Lots of swinging and missing and shoving.

34:58 – Fain just noping out, like “My job is done…”

35:20 – Get bent, Rafe. Natti & Abell can’t even be bothered to make sure their daughters are safe?

36:02 – I’m sorry, I can’t not see Madeleine Madden’s nose wart. Been driving me nuts all episode.

36:43 – The al’Thor experience would have been a lot scarier if that was the very first appearance of the Trollocs.

36:52 – Ah, Hollywood Archery! It’s something you use in the same room as your target! It’s like pistol shooting, which is why they often assign it as a specialty for slender women, too. And you can instantly pick up a bow and start shooting, and never mind that leaving it strung is a good way for the bow to lose its strength and power.

Which actually might explain why Rand failed to kill a Trolloc with a headshot from a "longbow".

37:15 – Trollocs always go for the easiest kill. That’s why Narg would turn from a supine victim to honorably fight an armed foe. First of all, Narg’s ONE TRAIT is that Narg smart. Narg can’t kill man with stick and boy with stool, Narg sure as shit not going to fuck with blademaster.

37:48 – On the one hand, Narg came pretty damn close to winning blademaster status for himself, but on the other, he goes down like a bitch.

38:18 - The trolloc on all fours was neat.

40:24 – Dammit Mat, they’re better off in such a good hiding spot! Out in the open, being carried by an as-a-result slower person is not nearly as safe.

40:29 – “Remember when we played hide-n-seek?” Kids do it all the time, it’s not something you need to remind them of, but TV writers all seem to think it is. Characters are always saying "Remember how we would play hide and seek" to kids when mortal danger threatens.

Of course a better response from Bode and Eldrin would be “No shit, Mat! We were doing pretty good until you dragged us out of our shelter.”

Where does he think the Shadowspawn came from? The well on the green? How does he know the oak isn’t right in their path?

41:20 – I like Moiraine’s channeling better than I thought I would from the trailer. It’s not like Rand’s kill-em-all weave in the Stone. Those white lines are flows of saidar, not the effects of her weaves, and she’s only killing a few at a time, in sight.

41:23 – I feel like Nynaeve getting dragged off by her braid is supposed to be a joke.

42:06 - PERRIN KILLS LAILA! That’s awesome! Brilliant! He’s going to be SOOO messed up about this! This could be, if done right, a great bridge to a lot of his issues!

And for the record, I find a blonde Two Rivers person a much greater violation than the black people cast as such.

43:37 – Something about the way that last Trolloc snarls at them reminds me of Lurtz, the Uruk-hai who killed Trevalyn in Fellowship. If only Miranda Sedai had been there to save him.

Bad Cannoli! Epic fantasy names, not Bond names.

I now want Daniel Craig to play Rhuarc.

45:36 – The al’Thors made it to the village! What happened to the baby reveal?!?!?

46:59 – I want to throw things whenever the Cauthons are on screen.

48:12 – We lose so much world-building and characterization by having Moiraine just wander past and Heal Tam unsolicited.

49:18 – And just about ALL of Moriaine’s characterization goes out the window when she tells them straight out that she’s here for the Dragon Reborn who is one of the kids in front of her. (hint, it’s the White Guy; nice job, casting people)

49:44 – Egwene being ordered to come is another mistake. Her THING, one of the things that makes many of her fans love her, is that she looks for, and seizes on, opportunities to get the Call to Adventure. She, more than any of them, wants to be a Main Character! It’s the very last bit of characterization of her in the books, FFS!

49:56 – “You’ve lived too long in these mountains, pretending that what happens in the rest of the world won’t affect you.” This feels more like some sort of political virtue signaling than anything relevant to the Two Rivers folk themselves.

50:07 – “the other sisters of the Aes Sedai” Sisters OR Aes Sedai. You don’t make the Old Tongue more accessible with this silly redundancy. It sounds like Aes Sedai is a specific entity, and Moiraine and Liandrin and the others are its sisters.

51:09 – Putting the wind bit here is just fan service and makes no sense. Get bent, show.




Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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This message last edited by Cannoli on 19/11/2021 at 08:13:36 AM
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Watching the WoT show. Episode 1 (spoilers) - 19/11/2021 03:38:38 AM 194 Views
My thoughts - 19/11/2021 06:10:47 PM 70 Views
That's just how I'd always pictured you *NM* - 20/11/2021 12:22:22 AM 12 Views
Which one? Blaine or Antoine? *NM* - 20/11/2021 01:10:55 AM 7 Views
Which one? I thought you had two heads *NM* - 20/11/2021 03:14:14 AM 5 Views
I completely agree with this point! - 20/11/2021 03:18:34 AM 46 Views
very true *NM* - 22/11/2021 10:30:32 AM 1 Views

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