Active Users:315 Time:06/05/2024 04:09:12 AM
You're probably right on women being overrepresented in the genre, yeah... Legolas Send a noteboard - 13/02/2024 10:05:41 PM

View original postI'm not sure Paradise Lost rescues Satan in the way Wicked, Frozen, and 'Till We Have Faces do, though, by making Lucifer into a 'good guy' rather than a tragic protagonist antihero, but that's true of Maleficent, also, I guess. It's been decades since I read any of Paradise Lost, and the two Maleficent movies are blurring in my head, only the first of which I consider 'of the genre' we're discussing.

Nah, it doesn't, I was pushing the boundaries of the definition a bit, Jesus Christ Superstar does qualify and that got me thinking along religious lines and back to Paradise Lost. But without being part of the genre, it's still an inspiration on some level for it - even if Milton surely didn't intend it like that, it's later generations of writers who started reinterpreting his text.
View original postIf Paradise Lost counts, it's definitely the ur-example, though. But I remember thinking that Satan's proclamation that it's better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven pretty straightforwardly reveals him to still be a villain - after all, only one of the uncountable fallen angels can 'rule' there and all the others are getting to serve in Hell, which seems to be the worst possible outcome.

The argument as William Blake made it was that 'The reason Milton wrote in fetters when he wrote of Angels & God, and at liberty when of Devils & Hell, is because he was a true Poet and of the Devil's party without knowing it.'

It's been probably nearly as long for me since I've read Paradise Lost, but I remember the Blake quote because it was the same way I felt. As I recall, the most epic scenes were of Satan and his lieutenants, while the most beautiful and poignant one was when Adam decides to stick by Eve even though she has 'fallen'. Whereas on the other end of the spectrum there was 'Paradise Regained' (I guess technically a separate poem, but my edition had both), which was just incredibly boring.

Doesn't mean Satan is a hero or that it would be so much fun to serve under him - but certainly Milton's angels and his Jesus are a rather boring lot.


View original postI recommend reading Lewis - not so much his Narnia stuff unless you're reading it to kids, but Screwtape Letters, Mere Christianity, That Hideous Strength, and Till We Have Faces.

View original postThis is third in a trilogy, but can be read as a stand alone novel, which is how I read it.

Thanks for the recommendations, will keep them in mind. Never did read any of it, not even Narnia - though I did recently watch the Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe movie as it happens, liked it well enough but not exactly wowed.
Reply to message
This "Wicked" thing looks stupid - 12/02/2024 10:15:46 PM 213 Views
She was simply water soluble, not evil. Not really. - 12/02/2024 11:00:38 PM 60 Views
I saw the musical - 13/02/2024 01:51:41 AM 57 Views
There's definitely many more, not all for female villains... - 13/02/2024 06:43:09 PM 48 Views
Yes, Cruella - 13/02/2024 07:52:03 PM 44 Views
I wouldn't read Lewis unless you're Christian or interested in Christianity, with one exception. - 13/02/2024 09:46:05 PM 41 Views
Wait, that TV show is based on The Sandman? Never knew that. - 13/02/2024 10:12:12 PM 40 Views
Yes the show is based off The Sandman comic - 13/02/2024 10:42:18 PM 36 Views
It's based on the comic that was spunoff from SANDMAN, yeah. - 13/02/2024 11:37:25 PM 37 Views
Speaking about The Sandman - 14/02/2024 03:08:24 AM 42 Views
I liked it a lot, personally. - 14/02/2024 04:50:07 PM 39 Views
Loved everything about it except the casting for Dream. He's a bit too waifish. - 14/02/2024 08:18:45 PM 35 Views
If Constantine is in season 2 - 14/02/2024 08:36:16 PM 35 Views
She was already in Season 1. They replaced John with Johanna. - 14/02/2024 11:10:16 PM 38 Views
D'oh! I forgot! *NM* - 15/02/2024 03:15:53 PM 15 Views
It is not going to happen, yet I think we know the answer already - 15/02/2024 03:27:47 AM 32 Views
I'm going to double down - 13/02/2024 10:21:56 PM 45 Views
You're probably right on women being overrepresented in the genre, yeah... - 13/02/2024 10:05:41 PM 45 Views
I still need to read the book it was based off of - 13/02/2024 03:22:07 AM 47 Views
hums DANCING THROUGH LIFE *NM* - 13/02/2024 03:25:07 AM 17 Views

Reply to Message