A dead townie seems like a loss, but in reality, it is not that much of one. Sure, it might depend on individuals and roles, but as a rule, the only value of conservation of townies is that as long as townies are superior in numbers to scum, we can lynch them. However, as I have demonstrated, saving one townie by not-lynching will not give us more opportunities to lynch a scummer, it will in fact give us less.
How can a loss, even minor, not be a loss? I agree that even when skewed a vote record is more of an asset then just a corpse, but both provide information, or can. But a random lynch doesn't and a near-random leaves DFs a loophole to get their guys out of fire, you skipped over my comments in that regard there and that's the flaw, one I don't think you want to see. When we've got little information people can usually find something that someone said and start pushing on it. Now, in of itself, that's good, that's how the game is played, but we get a weariness factor that combined with an assumption that 'we must always lynch' means anyone with a few votes on them gets lynched because others are pressured into voting, this would be fine, it would give us a great vote record, if the people who started the wagon rolling were DFs, but in practice, this really isn't the case, we have too many players now who approach the day 1 lynch with the same mindset as a scummer 'anyone but me', so that our day 1 vote record amounts to indicating only "Voters thought there was sufficient evidence to justify voting" not "Voters thought there was sufficient evidence to indicate scummer" and the former is a scummer mindset to voting. Our day 1 vote record does a great job telling us whose acting scummy, it just doesn't have a strong correlation to who is assigned an actual scum role.
There is a significant difference between a lynch and a vigilante night kill in that a lynch provides a voting record. Has there ever been a lynch of a townie in which Darkfriends were not involved? The voting record allows us to focus more efficiently on the scum by removing nearly half of all players from the immediate suspect list. Sure, there will be scum in that group too, probably, but we can afford to wait for them to make some mistakes as well. The vigilante, on the other hand, leaves us with only a net loss of townies if he fails. We don't even know if he was trying to get a scummer or if he was a serial killer or other faction. That's why lynching is invaluable, and vigilantism requires more caution.
What, 1 out 4 isn't enough you need zero out of four? No lynch goes off without townie help, ever, the idea is supposed to be that a disproportionate number of DFs vote for something, i.e. more than half of them, 3 out 4, 4 out of 4, 3/3, etc. 2/4 or even 2/3 doesn't help us much. When a day 1 lynch is certain to occur, the DFs don't have any need to vote for it, so many of them won't.
And the point on the vigilante is that a vig go loose is not a good thing, and a random vote has worse odds then he does, the vote record is better, but if a lynch is guaranteed to occur, then the DFs don't need to pile on, and odds are the ones who vote probably did it for the same reasons the various townies did, to just get the day over with. The vote record only helps if it actually shows us something, it's not very useful when everyone voting has more or less the same motive 'X did something that could conceivably be viewed as no town, therefore I have an excuse to vote for them that will hold up if they end as a townie', it's worse in a tank-f, because the DFs are hoping it's not a townie either.
You'd think the fact that you're promoting blatantly anti-town behaviour would be evidence enough, but yes, I know from past experience that no matter how scummy you are, it will be near impossible to lynch you.
You're the one defining this as anti-town behavior, I could just as easily point out that you're pursuing me on nothing but my advocating a position on no lynches is distracting us from any evidence relevant to this game, and that that is anti-town behavior. What, exactly, is anti-town about saying our current mindset toward lynching on day 1 has become so arbitrary as to be indistinguishable from the scum, and that the no-no lynch policy may be to blame? Look, go back through the vote records of recent game's day 1 and you'll see what I have, that because a day 1 lynch is now so arbitrary to most players the DFs have no need to stick their necks out. It's not that your argument is so bad, I do disagree but we still agree that random lynches are bad and that at the very least, day 1 no lynches should rarely be done. I think what you don't see is that most of players don't really follow our reasoning on this, yours or mine, they don't vote no lynch because 'people say its bad' and 'they'll think I'm a scummer', and IMO this is translate into many players approaching day 1 lynches with a 'anyone but me attitude' not a 'who is our best target?' attitude, and while many people operate under this, are record is useless because the motivations of the players, DF and town alike, are identical, and in a tank-f this is magnified because now the DFs genuinely have the same mindset as the town 'probably won't get a bad guy, but we might if we're lucky, and the important thing is it wasn't me', this is not good.
You benefit from this because it gives the town one less chance to catch you, less evidence by which to find you and your colleagues, and it gives the third faction you believe exists less clues to find and night kill you.
See, that's not a logical answer. I knew when I raised it that I'd be prodding a sore tooth and drawing negative attention, obviously. As for the second half, why would I think the rival faction, if I were a DF, needs any 'clues' as an excuse to kill me? Nobody needs an excuse to target either of us, we're night action magnets.
And as I've said, if we want the two factions to night kill each other, best give them as much evidence to fight their targets as we can. If they have no evidence, they're going to have to night kill pretty much at random, and you know as well as I that means they have a better chance of hitting a townie than a rival scum. Every lynch record has contained at least one scum, and it's not like it goes away, it just cumulates with later vote records.
We don't get any evidence of this style of day 1 lynching, all it tells the scum is that 51% of players voted, more or less as one would have expected from those players, regardless of their alignment. We don't really have to fight for day 1 lynches like we used to, because most of the players just shrug and say 'has to be someone, and it's not me' the accused says 'damn, I'm screwed, I'm dead, what's the point?' and no one wants to defend them because if they do turn up a DF they're dead, probably from NK before the town even has a chance to lynch, and it's not worth the risk since it will probably happen anyway, and heck, its not them. The players now vote exactly like the scum do.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
RAFO Mafia 17, Day 1: Trouble in Paradise
30/05/2010 10:43:08 PM
- 3885 Views
Miscellaneous information
30/05/2010 10:44:49 PM
- 1191 Views
Since I have not seen anybody else do this before (and it's a great way to start a conversation)
31/05/2010 07:33:03 PM
- 1169 Views
EBWOP: Don't know why this was not in the root, where I thought I put it
31/05/2010 07:34:09 PM
- 1148 Views
Re: RAFO Mafia 17, Day 1: Trouble in Paradise
31/05/2010 03:08:30 AM
- 1246 Views
I'm afraid I'm already waaay in over my head
31/05/2010 07:20:54 AM
- 1173 Views
Don't forget the 5th element *NM*
31/05/2010 08:25:13 AM
- 784 Views
Okay, so, let's get this started.
31/05/2010 07:48:13 AM
- 1261 Views
Well that depends.
31/05/2010 06:53:02 PM
- 1106 Views
Wow, of all the people here to be unfamiliar with a character.
31/05/2010 07:43:54 PM
- 1191 Views
I do...(for both)
31/05/2010 07:09:06 PM
- 1374 Views
I would be willing to bet that's true.
31/05/2010 08:50:05 PM
- 1198 Views
So are you saying the Tourists are also all... tourists?
31/05/2010 08:54:31 PM
- 1135 Views
EBWOP
31/05/2010 08:57:51 PM
- 1161 Views
Yes, and I recently read/watched/listened to whatever it is I'm from, too. Loved it *NM*
31/05/2010 07:29:20 PM
- 703 Views
No idea. *NM*
31/05/2010 10:28:53 PM
- 707 Views
Yes to both. *NM*
01/06/2010 12:54:55 AM
- 761 Views
Wait, scratch that. I don't have a place of origin. *NM*
01/06/2010 03:06:49 AM
- 623 Views
I didn't think he meant place but rather the work that you're from *NM*
01/06/2010 03:20:59 AM
- 691 Views
If there is an Oompa Loompa song whenever someone dies, I will die happy *NM*
31/05/2010 06:09:38 PM
- 677 Views
+1
31/05/2010 08:35:28 PM
- 1218 Views
+1 to that song. *NM*
31/05/2010 08:46:39 PM
- 716 Views
Since I tried to start a conversation, but failed (because I posted in the wrong place?)
01/06/2010 07:25:29 AM
- 1062 Views
ummm, dear?
01/06/2010 10:49:54 AM
- 1084 Views
^^^Attention-seeker = Jester^^^
01/06/2010 11:07:44 PM
- 1063 Views
Some first thoughts
01/06/2010 10:27:38 PM
- 1061 Views
Current Info (Table)
01/06/2010 10:40:41 PM
- 1318 Views
No and yes.
02/06/2010 02:23:49 AM
- 1153 Views
Random stone throwing super dick vote
02/06/2010 08:00:57 PM
- 1156 Views
Just do your best on answers, the questions are deliberately vague
02/06/2010 12:43:25 AM
- 1030 Views
OK, so we all know who we are. Now what?
02/06/2010 05:12:38 PM
- 1187 Views
We seem to have two random votes already
02/06/2010 06:06:29 PM
- 1038 Views
What do y'all think?
03/06/2010 12:36:23 AM
- 1098 Views
I won't be participating in that.
03/06/2010 01:06:26 AM
- 1017 Views
That's pretty legit.
03/06/2010 02:05:50 AM
- 1168 Views
We could talk about Napoleon62 and Isaac voting each other for no reason *NM*
03/06/2010 02:43:03 AM
- 689 Views
You think there are ulterior motives?
03/06/2010 03:07:28 AM
- 1114 Views
Fair enough. Good reason not to.
03/06/2010 03:45:35 AM
- 1127 Views
I actually think it's a decent idea, just needs a modification
03/06/2010 04:33:47 AM
- 1112 Views
I remember that.
03/06/2010 06:10:33 AM
- 1017 Views
Okay, so next 'question'
03/06/2010 07:57:08 AM
- 1149 Views
Ranagrande really seemed to make an effort to go out of his way here.
03/06/2010 01:31:03 PM
- 1094 Views
But if you're from something really weird
03/06/2010 05:54:37 PM
- 1181 Views
You don't even need to pick a bunch of weird things
03/06/2010 08:23:19 PM
- 1218 Views
Is one of those two sets of 5 your answer to your 5 worlds question?
06/06/2010 10:03:52 PM
- 1205 Views
IMPORTANT POINT
04/06/2010 05:04:18 AM
- 1094 Views
Who, exactly, is this warning intended for?
04/06/2010 05:30:05 AM
- 1176 Views
Re: Who, exactly, is this warning intended for?
04/06/2010 05:37:25 AM
- 1149 Views
Re: Who, exactly, is this warning intended for?
04/06/2010 05:49:00 AM
- 1140 Views
It is an interesting theory, though
04/06/2010 07:37:30 AM
- 1079 Views
Re: It is an interesting theory, though
04/06/2010 08:41:16 AM
- 1142 Views
I was assuming she meant it the same way we warn hypocoppers
04/06/2010 03:51:06 PM
- 1065 Views
jargon question.
04/06/2010 06:19:51 PM
- 1112 Views
Sorry I screwed up your fancy plans.
04/06/2010 08:05:18 PM
- 1145 Views
I must be really tired.
05/06/2010 02:52:32 AM
- 1044 Views
Honestly, anyone trying to lynch based solely on series
05/06/2010 04:00:13 AM
- 1022 Views
Out of curiosity, what did he say?
05/06/2010 06:47:43 AM
- 1210 Views
He said he was programmed.
05/06/2010 08:22:45 AM
- 1153 Views
But... wasn't that the robot game, where we were all programmed?
05/06/2010 07:37:03 PM
- 1179 Views
Actually, my own RM didn't mention robots at all, so odds are neither did DK's
05/06/2010 09:00:52 PM
- 1210 Views
Can we agree on revealing gender? *NM*
04/06/2010 06:20:29 PM
- 675 Views
Will that really help us tell who is mafia and who is not?
04/06/2010 06:39:07 PM
- 1127 Views
Will listing off five random worlds?
05/06/2010 04:09:55 AM
- 1024 Views
Re: Will listing off five random worlds?
06/06/2010 10:11:18 PM
- 1064 Views
btw, what happened to the Chair election?
04/06/2010 10:46:41 PM
- 1068 Views
I'm relatively content to give it to anyone who doesn't have day 1 lynch jitters
05/06/2010 12:12:19 AM
- 1650 Views
OK, since I'm apparently Chair (including a Table) *updated Jun 9th*
06/06/2010 07:43:10 PM
- 1169 Views
Male. . . .again. *NM*
07/06/2010 08:37:52 AM
- 681 Views
Napoleon's going to have a hard time
07/06/2010 09:10:21 AM
- 1102 Views
Let's not. *NM*
07/06/2010 08:06:58 PM
- 673 Views
I'll call you Smurfette anyway. You know, just because I can. *NM*
07/06/2010 08:29:35 PM
- 639 Views
Settings (Table)
07/06/2010 12:47:35 AM
- 1093 Views
Uh
07/06/2010 02:13:40 AM
- 1187 Views
Can someone explain for the slow kids?
08/06/2010 06:59:47 AM
- 1072 Views
Short answer: click the little links at the right side of the page
08/06/2010 10:56:37 PM
- 1236 Views
Anyone else get the feeling we have some "nontraditional" settings?
08/06/2010 12:04:23 AM
- 1148 Views
Didn't I suggest that from the beginning? *NM*
08/06/2010 03:08:36 AM
- 667 Views
I must say that it makes me uncomfortable
08/06/2010 07:40:00 AM
- 1096 Views
Just went back: ranagrande told me knowing settings is not vital to playing. A slight relief. *NM*
08/06/2010 07:49:10 AM
- 721 Views
Two new thoughts
08/06/2010 07:48:24 AM
- 1164 Views
Re: Two new thoughts
09/06/2010 12:02:01 AM
- 1179 Views
Re: Two new thoughts
09/06/2010 04:31:06 AM
- 1123 Views
Re: Two new thoughts
09/06/2010 04:57:02 AM
- 1190 Views
In which I spoil everyone's identity! (Well, maybe not)
09/06/2010 07:34:08 AM
- 1000 Views
Whoops, replied to the wrong spot... ignore this one, look below! *NM*
09/06/2010 07:35:40 AM
- 671 Views
In which I spoil everyone's identity! (Well, maybe not)
09/06/2010 07:35:10 AM
- 1146 Views
Not sure about the Talic vote, but
09/06/2010 10:35:25 AM
- 1133 Views
Agree
09/06/2010 12:24:47 PM
- 1133 Views
Yeah, I'll be participating even less than before.
09/06/2010 06:10:34 PM
- 1174 Views
Re: Yeah, I'll be participating even less than before.
09/06/2010 06:26:08 PM
- 1129 Views
Re: Yeah, I'll be participating even less than before.
09/06/2010 08:53:53 PM
- 1158 Views
Maybe you should explain why you think a 'No Lynch' on Day 1 is always bad
10/06/2010 02:05:16 AM
- 1134 Views
Do we have any reason to believe that the scum are not a single united faction? *NM*
10/06/2010 02:23:11 AM
- 756 Views
I'd say so, it's indicated in the intro text and it's been normal of late
10/06/2010 02:35:26 AM
- 1070 Views
Because it is always bad. Seems like the ideal reason.
10/06/2010 04:21:10 AM
- 1087 Views
Good points.
10/06/2010 04:45:24 AM
- 1273 Views
Re: Because it is always bad. Seems like the ideal reason.
10/06/2010 05:03:15 AM
- 1144 Views
We might randomly lynch (or try to lynch) someone who is part of a faction
10/06/2010 06:37:48 AM
- 1118 Views
I don't believe in completely random lynches.
10/06/2010 04:35:42 PM
- 1182 Views
I feel like random lynches are a really good place for scum to hide.
10/06/2010 06:19:22 PM
- 1159 Views
'Seems' isn't 'Is', a dead townie is a dead townie
10/06/2010 05:57:19 AM
- 1106 Views
Which is pretty much the point.
10/06/2010 05:39:36 PM
- 1131 Views
Re: Which is pretty much the point.
10/06/2010 06:31:40 PM
- 1194 Views
Re: Which is pretty much the point.
11/06/2010 01:56:41 AM
- 1190 Views
Re: Which is pretty much the point.
11/06/2010 12:58:25 AM
- 1181 Views
Incidentally, how likely do you think it is that I am a Darkfriend?
11/06/2010 01:34:55 AM
- 1176 Views
Probably less than random with some caveats, over all, roughly random
11/06/2010 02:21:24 AM
- 1171 Views
Re: Probably less than random with some caveats, over all, roughly random
11/06/2010 02:40:33 AM
- 1223 Views
I suppose we're back to DefCon 5
11/06/2010 03:36:12 AM
- 1193 Views
Hmm... I did forget the "main character" thing. Regardless, Talic is Captain Morgan
09/06/2010 11:25:03 PM
- 1189 Views
So sorry guys
10/06/2010 06:31:49 AM
- 1177 Views
No problem
10/06/2010 04:17:27 PM
- 1218 Views
Any chance we can get Gher to replace in?
10/06/2010 07:30:04 PM
- 1335 Views
An addition to my Talic accusation
10/06/2010 08:48:14 AM
- 1171 Views
Duffman wouldn't be awesome?
10/06/2010 10:31:30 AM
- 1139 Views
Oh come on.
10/06/2010 05:56:54 PM
- 1179 Views
I maintain it made sense
11/06/2010 02:55:39 AM
- 1120 Views
Combined Info (Table)
11/06/2010 04:33:01 AM
- 1210 Views
The All-Seeing Eye of Sauron is upon you... let the brutal analysis begin
11/06/2010 05:16:27 AM
- 1127 Views
Hmm ... I think I am working from a different definition of Modern Real Earth.
11/06/2010 06:37:04 AM
- 1127 Views
Re: Hmm ... I think I am working from a different definition of Modern Real Earth.
11/06/2010 12:50:16 PM
- 1180 Views
Re: The All-Seeing Eye of Sauron is upon you... let the brutal analysis begin
12/06/2010 03:33:37 PM
- 1203 Views
RBIRL for another effing week.
13/06/2010 01:55:52 AM
- 1160 Views
I am forced to assume
13/06/2010 02:46:47 PM
- 1122 Views
I'm not busy at all! Let's murder someone!
13/06/2010 04:06:04 AM
- 1064 Views
Re: I'm not busy at all! Let's murder someone!
13/06/2010 02:16:40 PM
- 1116 Views
Good point.
13/06/2010 06:20:55 PM
- 1107 Views
Before I basically disappear from this thread for about a week...
13/06/2010 08:55:03 PM
- 1169 Views
Re: Before I basically disappear from this thread for about a week...
14/06/2010 02:35:18 AM
- 1325 Views
Okay, pushing forward
14/06/2010 04:29:20 PM
- 1373 Views
Pledge: No; CON: Sure
15/06/2010 12:31:57 AM
- 1162 Views
So...
15/06/2010 01:04:11 AM
- 1111 Views
If you will allow me to be pedantic.
15/06/2010 01:24:07 AM
- 1024 Views
Ok, I just want to say I'm sorry for not posting as much as I normally do
15/06/2010 02:52:31 AM
- 991 Views
Okay, now you're just pushing for a No-Lynch in different terms.
15/06/2010 04:49:26 AM
- 1120 Views
<coughs> Not trying to imply you didn't actually read the post here, but...
15/06/2010 07:35:44 AM
- 1008 Views
Also...
15/06/2010 03:12:18 PM
- 1178 Views
BA has a point- townies ALREADY have an incentive to ask questions. Why reward DFs?
15/06/2010 07:56:04 AM
- 1106 Views
Seeing hwo you're trying to protect me from getting Lynched
15/06/2010 12:40:27 PM
- 1076 Views
Well, the lengthy posts are for clarity, apparently I wasn't lengthy enough.
15/06/2010 05:05:22 PM
- 1093 Views
Every vanilla is supposed to say yes.
15/06/2010 06:13:08 PM
- 1150 Views
Which of course brings about the real problem, which is the opposite of what you say.
15/06/2010 06:26:42 PM
- 1097 Views
Let me hold off on answering this, if you don't mind
15/06/2010 07:14:25 PM
- 1120 Views
Fine, I'm not in a hurry. *NM*
15/06/2010 07:17:10 PM
- 758 Views
Let me run another possible question by you
15/06/2010 08:18:33 PM
- 1153 Views
By the way, this is sort of a revision of white flame's question
15/06/2010 08:21:32 PM
- 1002 Views
At first glance, I don't see any problem with it.
15/06/2010 09:31:44 PM
- 1143 Views
to get the game moving
15/06/2010 08:53:38 PM
- 1188 Views
go on... *NM*
15/06/2010 09:38:13 PM
- 712 Views
its day one, do i realy need a reason? *NM*
15/06/2010 09:56:59 PM
- 702 Views
It is customary *NM*
15/06/2010 10:01:25 PM
- 704 Views
well...
15/06/2010 11:04:29 PM
- 1091 Views
Next Question
15/06/2010 09:56:10 PM
- 1089 Views
Strong Yes
16/06/2010 06:38:53 AM
- 1161 Views
Didn't you already say you were a manly man?
16/06/2010 12:52:57 PM
- 1157 Views
Who isn't answering questions (Table)
17/06/2010 03:13:58 PM
- 1068 Views
One of my answers
18/06/2010 12:50:15 PM
- 1086 Views
It won't be too much longer
18/06/2010 05:25:36 PM
- 1039 Views
All right, let's do this, I have two people to accuse
19/06/2010 08:36:14 PM
- 1082 Views
why just FOS?
19/06/2010 09:48:25 PM
- 1089 Views
I can't vote for two people at once
19/06/2010 10:12:10 PM
- 1042 Views
Honestly, I'm in standby at this point.
20/06/2010 09:31:42 AM
- 1125 Views
Just for you Beet, a non-acronym version
20/06/2010 05:13:07 PM
- 1101 Views
Re: All right, let's do this, I have two people to accuse
20/06/2010 01:29:43 PM
- 1184 Views
I'll reply to this in bits, but first:
20/06/2010 06:09:26 PM
- 1147 Views
Re: I'll reply to this in bits, but first:
20/06/2010 06:44:33 PM
- 1078 Views
Let me extend you an offer
20/06/2010 08:24:11 PM
- 1190 Views
A typo-less message implies I'm distracted? How?
21/06/2010 04:41:17 AM
- 1199 Views
No, you said you were distracted, I said the message looks like you want people to think so
21/06/2010 04:52:36 AM
- 1175 Views
I thought I did address the accusation.
21/06/2010 05:06:41 AM
- 1096 Views
See, and I know you're gonna think that was an intentional typo to prove a point. It wasn't, honest
21/06/2010 05:09:05 AM
- 1218 Views
I'm not really interested in typos one way or another
21/06/2010 05:16:19 AM
- 1144 Views
I'm a Barbie girl, in a Barbie world.
21/06/2010 05:27:27 AM
- 1121 Views
And now I'm gonna sleep. I'll get to your questions in the morning.
21/06/2010 05:29:08 AM
- 1074 Views
Aqua aside, why did you answer UNC for MRE and MCS?
21/06/2010 05:35:31 AM
- 1048 Views
Re: Aqua aside, why did you answer UNC for MRE and MCS?
21/06/2010 02:59:05 PM
- 1137 Views
I think UNC is consistent for MRE for Barbie
21/06/2010 06:51:13 PM
- 1109 Views
For the record, I did eventually change my consistency to a yes.
21/06/2010 07:17:09 PM
- 1093 Views
Possible, and MCS?
21/06/2010 07:21:29 PM
- 1098 Views
Yeah, that's also sketchy.
21/06/2010 07:28:24 PM
- 1084 Views
Re: Yeah, that's also sketchy.
21/06/2010 08:03:27 PM
- 1101 Views
Kronin's Barbie, but claimed he wasn't a major character? Vote: Kronin
21/06/2010 11:39:34 PM
- 1135 Views
I'd like a roleclaim.
22/06/2010 12:48:13 AM
- 1093 Views
Honestly, looking back, consistency should've been a yes.
22/06/2010 01:21:16 AM
- 1161 Views
Each day you can be a different role? That's kind of awesome *NM*
22/06/2010 07:22:35 AM
- 701 Views
Well, I knew it would come down to this, as soon as you pointed a finger to me.
21/06/2010 08:02:42 AM
- 1092 Views
Wow, so I suppose these questions can be used in a town friendly way
20/06/2010 02:06:15 PM
- 1170 Views
Ok, let's avoid the horizontal scroll
22/06/2010 01:25:27 AM
- 1111 Views
"You lie you die" is sound policy not only Day 1, but every Day.
22/06/2010 01:40:46 AM
- 1107 Views
Re: Ok, let's avoid the horizontal scroll
22/06/2010 01:43:07 AM
- 1069 Views
I suppose I'll join in
22/06/2010 01:45:48 AM
- 1120 Views
Re: Ok, let's avoid the horizontal scroll
22/06/2010 04:15:44 AM
- 1058 Views
Re: Ok, let's avoid the horizontal scroll
22/06/2010 04:31:27 AM
- 1102 Views
My answers to the 2 questions asked...
20/06/2010 05:31:22 PM
- 1033 Views
Kronin al'Sulc has been lynched
22/06/2010 01:44:22 PM
- 1126 Views