Active Users:614 Time:02/02/2026 03:26:55 PM
I think we may need to contemplate some semi-random options Isaac Send a noteboard - 06/08/2013 07:55:25 AM

We've a number of ways we've done things like this in the past, my own personal favorite is to winnow out the players who don't belong on the list and have the remainder fight it out, like 'the five lowest posters, full posts count as 2, NM as 1" etc. The problem with that is you need to make reasonable exceptions for RBIRL players and newer players.

We've used other means in the past to create that small pool, we've never needed to throw a dice either, but it does ensure we focus our attention. We could argue that the players who have been seen to contribute the least to acquiring information could be selected and required to roleclaim, and we review those normally and typically one will be suspicious, but if not we can always try something else.

To do something like that we need 2 things, 1) A pool size we're aiming to create and 2) Criteria for getting that pool. With 12 players we want to 3-5 I'd say.

Now as to #2 we're essentially talking about "Anti-town by not being pro-town enough" and that's got some fairly default criteria we tend to use. Number of posts, number of Non-NM posts, questions asked, etc. I'd like us to come up with some others if we can, but here's how that stands:

Post Count:
Isaac - 17
Fox and Ravens - 13
Hobo - 10
Artsapat - 9
Praziquantel - 8
Fanatic-Templar - 7
ranagrande - 6
Yunalesca - 6
Taiga - 5
Beet - 4
Dannymac - 3
Sacrilicious Toast - 2

That's 90 posts for an average of 7.5, sadly 45 of those 90 are NM posts, exactly half, but nobody's really been disproportionate about it. Also, if it comes down to 'tie-breakers' RBIRL posts, side post like me and rana BSing about game 15, etc aren't exactly 'participation', though they are to a limited degree. Same, the lowest players on that list our our 2 newest players, with the newest lowest. That's not a black mark on them though, they are new, don't know what to ask or what they might say to screw their team. So our bottom 5 not including them seem more valid, I'll leave it to them to discuss NM, RBIRL, or side-posts as value.

We've also got questions asked, but that's a short list, me at 3 and Rana just asked 1, "Did your RM describe your appearance?"

Attacks and defenses are major participation too, but we haven't had much that really counts. We've only had 3 votes, and none really levied evidence or merited a defense. We can add in less overt attacks, and defenses given for others, but I'd leave that for individuals to point out.

Vote: Isaac - Dannymac - 03 Aug 2013 01:09:47 AM
Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - Fox and Ravens - 30 Jul 2013 08:56:04 AM
Vote: Hobo - ranagrande - 29 Jul 2013 10:43:15 PM

On normal votes I'd bring up how skillfully and actively people involved attacked or defended on those votes, voter, target, or neither, but it just doesn't apply.

I'd like to have more criteria, as things stand we'd end up using the following: everyone who spoke less than average, or 7 posts or less;

Fanatic-Templar - 7
ranagrande - 6
Yunalesca - 6
Taiga - 5
Beet - 4
Dannymac - 3
Sacrilicious Toast - 2

Then we'd strike the bottom 2, because they're new and if removed early game it will be modkill, and especially with Berg set on 12 so firmly we'd want to give him a chance to come up with a sub, a different player or a qualified sub from the current players who gets axed on day/night 1.

Fanatic-Templar - 7
ranagrande - 6
Yunalesca - 6
Taiga - 5
Beet - 4

That's the list I'd work off right now as a base, I follow up shortly with my specific thoughts on each, but again I'd like some more criteria too.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Mafia 32 - No Fancy Title - Day 1 - 28/07/2013 06:46:40 PM 3468 Views
Present *NM* - 28/07/2013 07:52:29 PM 941 Views
Reporting in *NM* - 28/07/2013 09:50:47 PM 910 Views
Here. *NM* - 28/07/2013 10:42:26 PM 928 Views
Present! *NM* - 28/07/2013 11:03:03 PM 983 Views
I stand ready. *NM* - 29/07/2013 01:36:27 AM 947 Views
Helloooooo Players! *NM* - 29/07/2013 01:54:16 AM 933 Views
So, where to begin? *NM* - 29/07/2013 02:43:48 AM 930 Views
Use lube, this is my first time! *NM* - 29/07/2013 08:26:59 AM 989 Views
I loled *NM* - 29/07/2013 10:31:08 AM 969 Views
Just because of this comment I know he'll fit right in. - 01/08/2013 10:38:01 AM 1505 Views
Fox is being triggerhappy. *NM* - 01/08/2013 06:08:21 PM 942 Views
It's always fun on day 1! *NM* - 01/08/2013 06:37:26 PM 955 Views
RBIRL from Tuesday to Sunday - 29/07/2013 01:06:35 PM 1599 Views
I'm RBIRL from friday to sunday, myself - 29/07/2013 02:10:19 PM 1672 Views
RBIRL from Wednesday to Saturday. - 29/07/2013 02:18:47 PM 1588 Views
I'm joining the RBIRL train - 31/07/2013 01:50:55 PM 1557 Views
Present *NM* - 29/07/2013 02:53:40 PM 976 Views
apparently we got no fancy fantasy theme, but straight Mafia *NM* - 29/07/2013 03:18:18 PM 926 Views
I'm actually kinda glad. I think it was getting too...complicated for me. - 29/07/2013 03:48:33 PM 1609 Views
Agreed, but I would imagine Bergioyn might have some twists in store for us. - 29/07/2013 09:52:30 PM 1525 Views
Eh, Let's just go. IT WAS YOU THAT DID IT, WASN'T IT *NM* - 29/07/2013 10:56:49 PM 926 Views
It was you that done it, now own up! *NM* - 29/07/2013 11:41:40 PM 944 Views
Okay! I admit it! It was me! Oh wait... were you talking to or him? *NM* - 30/07/2013 02:31:30 AM 788 Views
Vote: Hobo - 30/07/2013 02:43:15 AM 1588 Views
Re: Vote: Hobo - 01/08/2013 12:27:15 AM 1567 Views
Re: Vote: Hobo - 01/08/2013 10:44:27 AM 1641 Views
I don't think it was - 01/08/2013 12:50:24 PM 1585 Views
If I remember correctly he had some dastatdly plot to catch the scum. - 01/08/2013 04:32:51 PM 1593 Views
He was very unclear on tha tpoint after the fact - 01/08/2013 11:27:00 PM 1647 Views
No, his plan was actually pretty good. - 06/08/2013 01:00:31 AM 1722 Views
How is that a good plan? - 06/08/2013 06:37:24 AM 1756 Views
Well, believe it or not, I swear it wasn't me this time. I blame s *NM* - 30/07/2013 02:07:38 PM 935 Views
it was probably Isaac but in the end he'll win the game *NM* - 30/07/2013 05:37:07 PM 933 Views
Rule #1: Isaac wins *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:18:38 PM 1005 Views
Rules are made to be broken. *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:51:38 PM 949 Views
But is this rule able to be broken? *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:54:22 PM 928 Views
Sure. Last time he lost was game 29. *NM* - 30/07/2013 09:32:45 PM 899 Views
Surely you recall the Marvel[ous] Siege? You were mason buddy - 01/08/2013 12:14:47 AM 1578 Views
I vaguely remember the Marvel game, but not any specifics... *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:55:24 PM 932 Views
I do... - 05/08/2013 04:25:10 AM 1554 Views
Rule #2: Isaac is always suspected, but not lynched. *NM* - 30/07/2013 10:32:57 PM 941 Views
Isaac is like the German Soccer team in this. - 01/08/2013 10:45:39 AM 1460 Views
Re: Isaac is like the German Soccer team in this. - 01/08/2013 12:18:52 PM 1637 Views
(here) *NM* - 29/07/2013 11:03:26 PM 913 Views
Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 30/07/2013 12:56:04 PM 1670 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 31/07/2013 09:19:11 AM 1687 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 01/08/2013 10:50:16 AM 1521 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 01/08/2013 12:11:33 AM 1545 Views
Activate! *NM* - 31/07/2013 03:03:50 AM 917 Views
Not too bad that you waited with the game, Berg - 01/08/2013 10:35:51 AM 1536 Views
Re: Not too bad that you waited with the game, Berg - 01/08/2013 11:06:23 AM 1565 Views
Okay, getting moving (Table) - 01/08/2013 11:45:30 PM 1681 Views
Yes, No, No. *NM* - 02/08/2013 02:32:52 AM 906 Views
Yes, No, No - 02/08/2013 08:54:12 AM 1602 Views
Re: Yes, No, No - 02/08/2013 09:50:24 AM 1511 Views
Yeah, my name's a real one too, just not logically related to anything in the game. *NM* - 02/08/2013 07:17:42 PM 908 Views
Same here. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:54:10 PM 873 Views
Yes, No, No *NM* - 02/08/2013 01:03:24 PM 879 Views
Yes, no, no *NM* - 02/08/2013 08:26:52 PM 824 Views
yes, no, no *NM* - 03/08/2013 01:10:00 AM 913 Views
would be nice if one player answered Yes, Yes. Yes now: Lie = lynch *NM* - 03/08/2013 09:12:07 AM 885 Views
Well I'm reasonably sure some of them will either answer other then yes, no, no or lie - 03/08/2013 12:29:34 PM 1581 Views
Yes. No. No. - 04/08/2013 09:02:49 AM 1451 Views
Re: Yes. No. No. - 04/08/2013 11:19:03 AM 1529 Views
Yes, No, No *NM* - 03/08/2013 11:06:41 PM 916 Views
Yes, no, no. Also, I'm back. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:52:11 PM 783 Views
Yes, no, no. Also, I'm back. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:52:47 PM 869 Views
Dangit, I hate when I double post. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:53:29 PM 928 Views
Yes, No No *NM* - 05/08/2013 03:28:03 AM 926 Views
Sorry I didn't have anything new to add... *NM* - 05/08/2013 03:29:28 AM 855 Views
Yes, No, No. *NM* - 06/08/2013 12:46:10 AM 859 Views
I might as well Unvote before I forget - 02/08/2013 03:32:43 PM 1508 Views
EBWOP - 02/08/2013 03:33:23 PM 1478 Views
Vote: Isaac - 03/08/2013 05:09:47 AM 1606 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 03/08/2013 07:32:48 AM 1528 Views
The "... and people die" part is probably accurate though *NM* - 03/08/2013 12:32:40 PM 871 Views
Correlation does not equal causation . *NM* - 03/08/2013 05:42:30 PM 904 Views
Precisely *NM* - 04/08/2013 11:22:52 AM 888 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 05/08/2013 08:31:03 PM 1585 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 06/08/2013 06:40:24 AM 1538 Views
Baaaack~ - 03/08/2013 11:26:57 PM 1544 Views
Although interesting, the questions don't seem to be adding much to the info - 05/08/2013 07:03:07 PM 1592 Views
Well - 05/08/2013 07:25:22 PM 1507 Views
That is correct - 05/08/2013 07:35:24 PM 1537 Views
Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 09:42:23 PM 1581 Views
Re: Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 10:09:48 PM 1625 Views
Re: Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 10:20:02 PM 1611 Views
I posted I was back.... NLRBIRL *NM* - 05/08/2013 10:25:58 PM 837 Views
Yeah, I missed that. Sorry *NM* - 06/08/2013 03:13:11 AM 914 Views
What's the NL for? RBIRL Real Busy in Real Life, NL=? - 06/08/2013 08:56:16 AM 1555 Views
Oh, duh, "No Longer" RBIRL *NM* - 06/08/2013 08:57:15 AM 872 Views
Yup *NM* - 06/08/2013 01:00:31 PM 914 Views
would be a very awkward abbreviation - 07/08/2013 10:05:17 AM 1499 Views
Re: Although interesting, the questions don't seem to be adding much to the info - 05/08/2013 08:26:01 PM 1674 Views
Agreed. Random lynches seem like a last resort to me. - 05/08/2013 08:55:59 PM 1586 Views
Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 12:52:25 AM 1654 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 06:59:26 AM 1580 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 10:01:18 AM 1590 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 12:56:47 PM 1672 Views
I didn't have anything either. *NM* - 06/08/2013 01:02:46 PM 912 Views
No, I'm sorry, I don't - 06/08/2013 02:33:58 PM 1625 Views
No appearance was described in my role message. *NM* - 06/08/2013 08:45:51 PM 893 Views
Nope. *NM* - 07/08/2013 07:23:00 PM 908 Views
No, nothing on appearance *NM* - 07/08/2013 09:02:11 PM 897 Views
I think we may need to contemplate some semi-random options - 06/08/2013 07:55:25 AM 1562 Views
List of remarks by the 'accused', plus some remarks on them - 06/08/2013 08:51:15 AM 1738 Views
explanation - 06/08/2013 09:05:55 AM 1614 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 09:47:35 AM 1623 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 09:59:45 AM 1659 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 01:28:49 PM 1594 Views
I'm just surprised I'm not on the list. I was always a low poster... - 06/08/2013 10:00:22 AM 1614 Views
Re: I'm just surprised I'm not on the list. I was always a low poster... - 07/08/2013 07:48:34 PM 1533 Views
Your questions - 06/08/2013 02:59:16 PM 1644 Views
I apparently answered your questions backwards - 06/08/2013 03:06:06 PM 1604 Views
I would look at it a bit differently, even if the outcome doesn't change that much - 06/08/2013 03:55:12 PM 1649 Views
Well, I'm impressed - 06/08/2013 04:11:31 PM 1549 Views
I thank you for the compliment. - 06/08/2013 09:51:54 PM 1604 Views
Re: I thank you for the compliment. - 07/08/2013 01:53:25 AM 1555 Views
Those are fair points - 07/08/2013 11:08:21 AM 1562 Views
Re: Those are fair points - 07/08/2013 01:01:55 PM 1579 Views
Oh dear, this is unfortunate. - 07/08/2013 09:46:26 PM 1639 Views
I think you just killed Beetnemesis *NM* - 07/08/2013 10:56:16 PM 892 Views
Better him than me . *NM* - 07/08/2013 11:16:29 PM 888 Views
Re: Oh dear, this is unfortunate. - 07/08/2013 11:32:12 PM 1533 Views
nice analysis - 07/08/2013 10:25:20 AM 1493 Views
Like I said before, Tables=Death - 06/08/2013 07:20:07 PM 1588 Views
Re: Like I said before, Tables=Death - 06/08/2013 08:22:47 PM 1511 Views
Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 03:37:36 PM 1503 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 04:11:04 PM 1545 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 04:43:12 PM 1593 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 05:34:04 PM 1576 Views
He really is... - 07/08/2013 04:55:59 PM 1543 Views
Re: He really is... - 07/08/2013 08:36:44 PM 1592 Views
Hm, that's not quite what I was thinking when I said that - 08/08/2013 08:49:11 PM 1464 Views
BAMF? - 07/08/2013 06:31:59 PM 1521 Views
It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:38:24 PM 1608 Views
Re: It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:42:30 PM 1638 Views
Re: It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:45:49 PM 1596 Views
When it comes to Marvel, it's Spidey and Deadpool all the way! X-Men. Pffft. - 07/08/2013 10:38:41 PM 1520 Views
Dr Doom was always my favorite hero in Marvel, but Deadpool is pretty cool *NM* - 07/08/2013 10:52:39 PM 849 Views
Dr Doom has cool costume, but other than that I don't know much about him. - 07/08/2013 11:37:09 PM 1518 Views
He's Marvel's Lex Luthor, only much cooler - 07/08/2013 11:48:00 PM 1499 Views
I'd actually say he's a bit more like Marvel's Superman than Marvel's Lex Luthor. - 07/08/2013 11:54:14 PM 1619 Views
I'm not a Marvel fan, but Doom is amazing. - 07/08/2013 11:52:09 PM 1514 Views
OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 04:49:33 PM 1603 Views
Re: OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 05:44:09 PM 1610 Views
Well, you obviously know something, so out with it - 07/08/2013 06:33:04 PM 1548 Views
With that in mind... sounds like I hit too close to home, and you got sensitive - 08/08/2013 03:10:50 AM 1585 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis, Are you accusing me of being scum for pointing out your post had no substance? - 08/08/2013 03:39:25 AM 1629 Views
Re: - 08/08/2013 06:30:26 AM 1531 Views
Granted, as you yourself pointed out: attack is the best defense - 08/08/2013 08:17:31 AM 1486 Views
How often do we even have SKs? *NM* - 08/08/2013 09:39:58 AM 966 Views
This pushes it over the edge for me too. - 08/08/2013 01:13:21 PM 1529 Views
Hah. You got prickly pretty quickly. - 08/08/2013 07:39:24 PM 1531 Views
Prickly? I'm not touchy about it just suspiscious - 08/08/2013 08:01:39 PM 1509 Views
Re: OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 06:38:45 PM 1550 Views
My feeling is that a "normal" game is pretty easy to balance - 08/08/2013 03:08:09 AM 1536 Views
re - 07/08/2013 08:36:15 PM 1537 Views
Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 04:31:26 PM 1557 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 05:44:54 PM 1540 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 07:51:09 PM 1592 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 08:02:45 PM 1549 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 08:05:52 PM 1673 Views
The thing we want to avoid is MASS roleclaim - 09/08/2013 08:30:32 AM 1469 Views
Okay, almost totally off topic but... - 07/08/2013 11:40:54 PM 1472 Views
The problem with that - 08/08/2013 08:09:56 AM 1558 Views
Re: The problem with that - 08/08/2013 05:02:56 PM 1536 Views
Reminds me of the Cairhien game a bit. - 08/08/2013 06:14:17 PM 1514 Views
That remains one of my favorites - 08/08/2013 07:48:42 PM 1543 Views
I haaaated the Cairhien game - 08/08/2013 08:16:57 PM 1556 Views
Re: That remains one of my favorites - 08/08/2013 09:42:25 PM 1521 Views
Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 05:51:23 PM 1504 Views
My take: - 08/08/2013 08:00:13 PM 1684 Views
Did you just admit to being a scummer? - 08/08/2013 08:04:21 PM 1566 Views
Hah, remember when I mentioned grasping at straws? - 08/08/2013 09:31:35 PM 1501 Views
We have always used the term that way, always, that and only that back to game 2 - 08/08/2013 09:44:20 PM 1573 Views
Holy crap, 4 years ago. - 09/08/2013 02:09:09 AM 1420 Views
That's when you asked and were told by the Moderator, it has come up since then many times - 09/08/2013 04:10:28 AM 1498 Views
I can't be the only person laughing at you right now - 09/08/2013 05:44:03 PM 1511 Views
I doubt anyone is laughing including yourself - 09/08/2013 06:08:41 PM 1504 Views
No, he's correct. - 08/08/2013 09:53:43 PM 1628 Views
Re: My take: - 08/08/2013 08:12:46 PM 1612 Views
To be a student of Isaac is a subtle thing - 08/08/2013 09:30:02 PM 1473 Views
sure - 08/08/2013 08:44:06 PM 1530 Views
Hmm, my thoughts, - 08/08/2013 08:56:27 PM 1614 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 10:30:22 PM 1561 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 11:18:56 PM 1602 Views
"Post count" usually acts as a tiebreaker - 09/08/2013 02:12:28 AM 1563 Views
I disagree - 09/08/2013 09:00:33 AM 1485 Views
Re: I disagree - 09/08/2013 11:25:29 AM 1493 Views
Several people have called for a roleclaim from beet - 09/08/2013 09:06:28 AM 1529 Views
I feel like I'm missing something really obvious here... - 09/08/2013 09:16:51 AM 1525 Views
Re: I feel like I'm missing something really obvious here... - 09/08/2013 03:18:38 PM 1579 Views
No, I meant entrails. - 09/08/2013 03:49:21 PM 1484 Views
Re: No, I meant entrails. - 09/08/2013 04:05:31 PM 1519 Views
Ah. Well that definitely explains it. *NM* - 09/08/2013 04:49:55 PM 872 Views
That's awesome. *NM* - 09/08/2013 09:21:59 PM 857 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 09/08/2013 11:48:13 AM 1460 Views
I'll point out that SKs were one of a few options I hypothesized - 09/08/2013 05:47:23 PM 1543 Views
Re: I'll point out that SKs were one of a few options I hypothesized - 09/08/2013 07:10:44 PM 1404 Views
OK, so the smiley was a typo - 09/08/2013 07:26:58 PM 1544 Views
I do, but - 09/08/2013 03:39:28 PM 1511 Views
RBIRL - 09/08/2013 05:50:21 AM 1532 Views
The case on Beetnemesis - 09/08/2013 05:05:32 PM 1644 Views
Ah good, time for a point-by-point rebuttal - 09/08/2013 06:04:11 PM 1542 Views
EBWOP: A final point - 09/08/2013 06:14:25 PM 1609 Views
Actually... - 09/08/2013 06:38:26 PM 1571 Views
I can't see any difference with Isaac's "aggressiveness". *NM* - 09/08/2013 07:31:28 PM 950 Views
Re: EBWOP: A final point - 09/08/2013 07:55:19 PM 1631 Views
Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 07:04:40 PM 1619 Views
Shrug, I have nothing against roleclaiming. Roleclaim: Tracker - 09/08/2013 07:33:40 PM 1541 Views
Correct me if wrong... - 09/08/2013 08:39:58 PM 1572 Views
Exactly! - 09/08/2013 11:06:25 PM 1582 Views
Wow, I'm gone for 24 hours, - 11/08/2013 12:02:38 AM 1532 Views
No, you just did everything you could to avoid it, like claiming almost no one had asked... - 09/08/2013 08:42:10 PM 1651 Views
I think you're right. - 09/08/2013 11:47:32 PM 1775 Views
Re: Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 07:49:12 PM 1527 Views
Re: Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 08:04:42 PM 1616 Views
too much mud - 09/08/2013 09:50:35 PM 1629 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis - 11/08/2013 10:32:51 AM 1716 Views
@ Mod, Vote Check - 11/08/2013 04:46:16 PM 1547 Views
That's a valid vote, I had missed it. Twilight pending. - 11/08/2013 05:36:13 PM 1531 Views
Actually, so did I. Did I hammer? - 11/08/2013 05:55:14 PM 1489 Views
Yes. *NM* - 11/08/2013 05:59:47 PM 761 Views
beetnemesis has been lynched. - 11/08/2013 05:52:43 PM 1596 Views

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