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Re: You are great and wonderful. Nate Send a noteboard - 17/06/2010 02:25:44 PM
First thing's first: What does tl;dr mean?


Too long; didn't read. One of those internet phrases, which means providing a summary for people who don't want to read all that.

I agree completely. Hence the badgering you to make this post. Thank you. I am terribly impressed. Just so you know.


I'm glad you like it. :D

You skipped your insight of the difference between the Doctor in the TARDIS and the other Doctor in this summary post. I thought that was quite important. That it implies a distinction between the two Doctors (one with TARDIS, the other without) -- although you implied it when you said one TARDIS would have blown up.


Yes, you're right, I did miss that bit. How is a guy supposed to keep track of all the insights he has, anyway? "The Doctor in the TARDIS doesn't know" is an interesting phrase, especially since it was used twice from two different sources, phrased exactly the same. If there are two Doctors, and the one who knows what's going on does not have a TARDIS, that would certainly explain it.

There is also the fact that we know some of Amy's memories do not correspond to what we have seen -- eg <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D02hURuKbR8">the Doctor tracing the crack</a>. That, too, fits with meddling. Everything seems to be slightly out of sync.


Yes indeed. I can't claim all of that insight, whoever made that Youtube video is the one who spotted it, but it definitely indicates that the timeline has been altered somehow.

The Jacket Doctor

I love this. If this is not explained I will be SEVERELY disappointed.


Me too.

The loss of the jacket also means that time lines have already diverged. I know it is an obvious thing to state at this point, but I felt it should be said.


Does our Doctor get his jacket back somehow afterward? Or is he wearing a slightly different jacket now?

I agree. It cannot have been Prisoner Zero. The question is whether it was at this point that the Doctor said something, or whether he was hiding and what she is supposed to remember is something that we have seen him say. I still think there is a specific thing she is supposed to remember. The act of remembering may be the point of it, but I am sure the moment where it comes into play will be in reference to a PARTICULAR memory.


Yeah, I'm not sure if he said anything to her or not. But I definitely have the suspicion that it was the future Doctor, involved right from the beginning.

I want this to be something. One of the things I like about the Doctor generally is that he may be somewhat absentminded, but in the absentmindedness he still somehow has control of the improtant things. Only occasionally does it take him a while to figure things out. But usually he plays stupid for a while while secretly noticing everything. If his absentmindedness is simple plot convenience I will be disappointed.


There are enough moments where he should have noticed something that it feels like something deliberate. Whenever writers (especially writers as clever as Moffat) reuse something several times, there is probably some significance to it. It also fits in with the whole style of clues and mystery that we're assuming is going on here.

I am not entirely onboard with the killing the Doctor theory. I think the priest would have reacted differently to the presence of the Doctor if that were the case. But I may be wrong. I can't see it being Rory either, somehow. I don't really have a theory. They need a good explanation if she has to kill the Doctor. He would not leave her in prison if she did. It just doesn't quite fit in my brain.


Would he leave her in prison if he knew that her future self had to be with the clerics to cause the angel sequence to happen?

The two watches of the Doctor also needs explanation.


Yes. Maybe whatever happens to make Amy give her watch to River also causes the Doctor to change watches?

I do like this idea. I wonder whether it can be combined with your "Amy isn't quite what she seems" theory. Ie, Amy reverts to being key to time (just to pick a thing pretty girls have done before...), but gives her watch to River before that happens.


I really can't shake the feeling that she's more than meets the eye. A lot of her child scenes whisper that to me, and there was that preview for Vampires of Venice that cast her in an ominous light (even though the episode itself didn't really).

But River did not seem UNHAPPY about what is about to happen in the context of Pandorica. No soulful glances in the direction of Amy or the Doctor (unlike her reaction to Donna). This leads me to think she does not believe either will die.


This is true. River didn't seem worried for either of them, or sad for them. She seemed confident, and content with her own role in matters.

I would prefer the "let's band together to stop it" thing. It would be a change if the Doctor worked WITH the Daleks and the Cybermen.


That would be an interesting change.

What could be so powerful and dangerous? Is it the thing that causes the end of the universe, the cracks, the silence? If so, how is it related to Amy?

I doubt the evil Doctor scenario.


I do too, but when I imagine the most dangerous thing in the universe, the sort of thing that entire races would fear, the sort of thing that would be sealed away, and also the sort of thing that could be described, in the preview, as a warrior, or a trickster, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies -- I think of the Doctor gone horribly wrong.

But I still doubt it.

I have no idea. But I am very curious. Could it be that it feeds off memory, or hopes and fears somehow? In the original myth (provided the reference is actually to Pandora), hope remained in the box, I think.


If it's not the destruction of the time vortex within the TARDIS that causes the cracks, then it must be whatever is in the Pandorica, perhaps used by Amy to bring Rory back and breaking the rules of the universe, cracking it.

I LIKE THIS. I have been wondering what on earth was with the duck pond. This is the best explanation yet.


It's the only explanation for it I can come up with -- that it illustrates some truth about memory that will be important to the finale's plot.

This is an old reference. Doctor Who seems to do the "we are what legends are made of" thing every now and then. It would not surprise me if Moffat seizes on it and does something with it.


Certainly possible. The whole fairy tale thing makes me wonder about Amy though ... and whether she might not actually be something from a fairy tale, something different than a regular person. There's no real "evidence" for that though, just feelings.

Good point. And the Doctor's mutterings are relevant. We know that much.


Mmhmm. I couldn't quite make out everything he was saying, but it was something about "Amy, why not Amelia?" He was doing that thing of his where he thinks through ideas very quickly, and somehow that got in there even though he was trying to save her life, so he quickly said "Nevermind!" and went on to the idea of closing her eyes.

And if he really is unfocused because of a timeline shift, it might be one of those things he will kick himself for not realizing earlier, if it turns out to mean anything.

I don't agree with you on this. I think it is more likely the other Doctor has been using one, to keep out of sight. Rory is his own person. Or he would not have acted like that in "Amy's Choice", I think. Besides, it just doesn't fit with how the Doctor acts. There have been no indications.


Yes, I don't agree with me either, I was just talking possibilities out loud. I like that The Lodger revealed that perception filters can trick your memory as well though. I would like that to be an important fact, and would love for a perception filter based reveal to play a part. If the repetition of an unfocused Doctor is deliberate, so too might be the repetition of the perception filter.

I agree. But I am not sure that has happened. Or. Hmm, my love for time travel is quickly waning. There is a tendency of Doctor Who that the Doctor causes things he is trying to avert. Or... anyway. Could it be that the cracks are caused by the loss of Rory? Or that -- and as I type this my brain stops holding on to things. I have this strange contradictory feeling. I believe in the second Doctor thing, and him trying to fix things by tweaking the timeline. But at the same time, I have this sneaking suspicion that Amy's finding the ring just before the finale is not a coincidence. Her reaction to Rory's death (as we have seen before) will be extreme. And combined with some sort of powerful weapon could cause cracks. Hmmm. I don't think I articulated that well at all. I may have to return to this post to clean up later.


This plus some of the stuff you said below is interesting, and now I'm leaning your direction on this. I like the idea that as soon as the Doctor set onto this path, the future in which the cracks appear became a reality, and said cracks began to reach back into the timeline that caused them. The second Doctor trying to manipulate or correct events still works with that idea. You've swayed me, which is good, because I was never in love with all that time travel stuff I wrote further below, about things being different and just how far the timeline might be altered, all that. It didn't quite fit for me, but the thoughts were in my head so I included them.

Hmmm. Could it be that we are watching the first Doctor? And that it is the SECOND that has a jacket and no TARDIS?


I think it's just a matter of how you define it or look at it. If the events already happened once, then Jacket Doctor is the first Doctor. If the events haven't "happened", but if the Doctor's actions will make them happen, thus setting into motion a future that involves a Doctor with no TARDIS, allowing said Doctor to move back into his timeline to alter things, then our Doctor could be considered the first one.

Either way, the Jacket Doctor is from the future of events.

I have had the same problem with Amy's aunt. It does not fit that we have never seen her. Something is off there. I agree.


I couldn't shake the feeling that there was no aunt. She still wasn't home at 11:30 p.m., leaving a young girl home alone. But that young girl knew how to cook for herself and was not afraid. It might be nothing. But I have suspicions.

Edit: oh, and someone told me that the child Amelia will appear in the finale. That sort of fits with the "Amy isn't what she appears" theory. Unless it will be a flashback -- although flashback is a dubious term in relation to time travel.


Ooh, interesting.
Warder to starry_nite

Chapterfish — Nate's Writing Blog
http://chapterfish.wordpress.com
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Doctor Who series speculation - 17/06/2010 03:00:04 AM 2075 Views
I'm going to watch it all over again (again ) so that I can comment with my eye on the ball - 17/06/2010 05:25:27 AM 825 Views
I did notice the Paris thing. - 17/06/2010 05:35:18 AM 769 Views
Re: I did notice the Paris thing. - 17/06/2010 12:07:39 PM 907 Views
You are great and wonderful. - 17/06/2010 12:06:29 PM 1168 Views
Re: You are great and wonderful. - 17/06/2010 02:25:44 PM 890 Views
Re: You are great and wonderful. - 17/06/2010 02:45:14 PM 935 Views
Regarding jackets - 18/06/2010 05:24:00 PM 823 Views
Nice. - 18/06/2010 10:31:26 PM 759 Views
Re: Nice. - 18/06/2010 10:33:28 PM 815 Views
Before I go on reading the other posts... - 19/06/2010 05:07:51 PM 737 Views
Re: Before I go on reading the other posts... - 19/06/2010 08:11:08 PM 862 Views
The way I looked at it ... - 19/06/2010 08:50:43 PM 833 Views
Re: The way I looked at it ... - 19/06/2010 09:25:39 PM 787 Views
Good stuff - 17/06/2010 01:12:55 PM 704 Views
Re: Good stuff - 17/06/2010 01:17:47 PM 779 Views
Re: Good stuff - 17/06/2010 03:35:27 PM 858 Views
Re: Good stuff - 17/06/2010 03:40:51 PM 816 Views
There was a preview screening earlier in the week - 17/06/2010 04:04:28 PM 743 Views
Re: There was a preview screening earlier in the week - 17/06/2010 04:10:39 PM 773 Views
Re: Good stuff - 17/06/2010 02:31:13 PM 850 Views
Hmm. What of the old lady in the first episode? - 17/06/2010 11:09:44 PM 897 Views
I did the exact same thing. - 18/06/2010 12:04:19 AM 893 Views
- 18/06/2010 10:00:15 AM 778 Views
You are all utterly insane. - 19/06/2010 12:18:08 PM 805 Views
No surprises there. - 19/06/2010 12:33:45 PM 797 Views
I love your speculation here. May I add my own pet theory? - 18/06/2010 10:05:56 AM 782 Views
Re: I love your speculation here. May I add my own pet theory? - 18/06/2010 10:19:21 AM 867 Views
About the cracks. - 18/06/2010 10:57:34 AM 995 Views
Re: About the cracks. - 18/06/2010 01:20:23 PM 831 Views
Re: About the cracks. - 18/06/2010 03:28:10 PM 945 Views
Re: About the cracks. - 18/06/2010 03:46:59 PM 769 Views
Link to a clip from the upcoming episode and some speculation - 18/06/2010 04:11:19 PM 927 Views
So, I'm rewatching "Flesh and Stone" - 18/06/2010 06:53:48 PM 806 Views
Re: So, I'm rewatching "Flesh and Stone" - 18/06/2010 10:13:14 PM 952 Views
Cheers for the shout out! - 18/06/2010 11:45:52 PM 891 Views
Oh, and something to think about - Amy = Romana anyone? Longshot. *NM* - 18/06/2010 11:50:14 PM 496 Views
And one final thing... - 19/06/2010 12:07:04 AM 843 Views
How would she have gotten out of E-Space? *NM* - 19/06/2010 12:13:56 AM 462 Views
Re: How would she have gotten out of E-Space? - 19/06/2010 12:15:47 AM 759 Views
Aaaand, (watching the episodes with the Silurians and the Lodger) (Edited) - 19/06/2010 09:52:38 AM 809 Views
Ooh. - 19/06/2010 04:49:48 PM 746 Views
With regards to what he said to Amy when she was seven... - 19/06/2010 07:00:56 PM 825 Views
Yes - 19/06/2010 09:33:21 PM 863 Views
No, the shadow is earlier - 19/06/2010 10:06:06 PM 810 Views
Re: No, the shadow is earlier - 20/06/2010 07:55:06 AM 951 Views
Crack in the Tardis? - 20/06/2010 07:20:21 PM 947 Views
Re: Crack in the Tardis? - 20/06/2010 08:03:04 PM 872 Views
Watches - 23/06/2010 08:04:53 PM 704 Views
! - 23/06/2010 08:30:53 PM 826 Views
Re: ! - 23/06/2010 08:37:49 PM 814 Views
Re: ! - 23/06/2010 10:22:44 PM 819 Views
Re: ! - 23/06/2010 10:25:14 PM 746 Views
Re: ! - 23/06/2010 11:40:01 PM 733 Views
Re: ! - 23/06/2010 11:42:51 PM 787 Views
Re: ! - 24/06/2010 12:01:24 AM 773 Views
Re: ! - 24/06/2010 12:02:58 AM 690 Views
Re: ! - 24/06/2010 12:14:04 AM 749 Views
I don't know if it can be the Time Agent thing the Doctor's wearing, can it? - 24/06/2010 09:31:38 AM 790 Views
Remember ... - 24/06/2010 04:42:27 PM 867 Views

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