Let's look at the Forsaken and how they died...
Balthamel was one of those rare cases where we don't know if he was unlucky or incompetent because we didn't know what was happening from his opinion, and everyone around him knew squat about channeling. How could a Forsaken level channeler land up getting killed by a Nym? A man like Balthamel could blow the tree up, and even a simple barrier of Air would have done the job of keeping him safe. That said, we don't know how 'old' Balthamel was. Maybe he couldn't see properly, and maybe he felt so weak that he could hardly channel. Either way, this is one of those rather ridiculous deaths which will remain mysterious.
Aginor was incompetent. Like Forsaken to come, he decided to toy with his food. He taunted Rand, and played around with Moiraine and her friends. When Rand eventually went after the Eye, Aginor burnt himself out and died - something a novice would do. He had to know that he couldn't reach beyond his potential. The fool.
Agreed.
Ishamael was probably incompetent. He spent most of the early part of the series trying to turn Rand to the Shadow using slavery and submission as 'gifts' for turning. Talk about a brilliant tactic. He chose to fight with a staff despite being the strongest channeler in the world. He confronted Rand when he was an inch from Callandor, the sa'angreal that ultimately destroyed him. His channeling was cool and impressive, but he choose a poor battle ground, and often arrived at a fight poorly prepared and drowning in arrogance.
Drowned in his own over-confidence and pride. Always thought he was in complete control of the situation even when he wasn't even close. He never wanted to, or tried to kill Rand for a start, and then chose to monologue at him when he decided to. Shouldn't have given Rand a chance at Callandor.
Be'lal was unlucky. It is true that he also taunted Rand while he was in arms length of Callandor. The difference is that this was the plan and that Be'lal was almost certainly ready for the moment Rand lowered the wards on the sword. It was pure bad luck that Moiraine arrived, though Ishamael would probably have zapped both Be'lal and Rand if they'd succeeded.
Equal parts luck and overconfidence. No matter how insignificant, it's still poor form to ignore an enemy at your back.
Asmodean was very unlucky. At the moment he decides to skim to Rhuidean, he is discovered and Rand goes after him. He sets all sorts of wierd and fun traps and even gets the Choedan Kal. It's extremely bad luck once again that Rand reached it at the exact same time AND had a male angreal to push him slightly to the top. He was betrayed by Lanfear more than anything else, though he was very foolish to get lured by her into some sort of plan.
Betrayed by Lanfear. That was niether luck or incompetence; it was bound to happen at some point. Perhaps he was unlucky that Lanfear knew what his plan was. It's likely that Lanfear didn't leave him much of a choice about helping her. He just got screwed over.
Lanfear was highly incompetent. She initiated a duel with Rand at the docks in open view of hundreds of people. She's lucky she didn't die instantly. She didn't kill any of the main characters and dismissed them, and focussed on prolonging Rand's suffering rather than killing him immediately. She paid no attention to her surroundings and wasn't even defeated by channeling.
Wanted to make Rand suffer rather than kill him (at least not yet anyway). Was always in complete control against Rand, and probably surprised that Moiraine was still conscious. She dismissed the main characters after they collapsed to the ground. I'd call this equal parts incompetence and luck.
Rahvin was incompetent. He sat on his throne while he knew that Rand was invading. He thought Rand would play into his little maze and traps which is a huge assumption. He skipped through to TAR where he did use some skill to defeat Rand, and was ultimately stabbed in the back by Nynaeve.
I'd call it pretty bad luck to have Rand discover Travelling in the middle of his fight, and then Nynaeve turn up in TAR.
Sammael was very unlucky. He warded Ilian perfectly and then ran to a battlefield of his choosing. He was betrayed by Moridin, and was unlucky enough to have mashadar descend on him from the top. Perhaps it was incompetent to fight in SL, but then he knew that Rand would have suffered the same fate.
Incompetent. Didn't watch his back in Shadar Logoth. Channeling attracts Mashadar. Duh!
Osan'gar was incompetent. Tried to balefire Rand and was seen, and died.
Graendal... we'll see what was happening in the next book.
Incompetent. That feels good!
First of all, Graendal's dead. Secondly, she was outsmarted by Rand. She expected Rand to play her game, when he had already indicated he had something up his sleeve and wasn't going to play by her rules.
Semirhage was incompetent. She spent time torturing Rand and gave into her sadistic flaws. A predictible turn of events for her. Of course, her incompetence started a whole book earlier when she brought a few damane to challenge the single biggest group of mega-channelers in the world. Semirhage could literally have Travelled with Rand after she caught him, or even escaped immediately, yet she made her intent clear and was even planning to go after Cadsuane and friends later in that scene.
Overconfident and unlucky. Possibly betrayed as well. She could have escaped, but really didn't want to. It's pretty unlikely that anyone in the camp could have stood up to a circle between her and Rand, and they may have been unwilling to even fight back properly in case they killed Rand and doomed the world. Made a serious oversight about Rand's bonds, which didn't come into effect (and also would have made escape pointless). Killed because Rand managed to access the True Power.
Thoughts?
Forsaken deaths - incompetent or unlucky?
- 28/04/2010 07:43:08 PM
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I don't believe in luck, so I tend to think they were incompetent and didn't adequately plan. 
*NM*
- 28/04/2010 08:44:27 PM
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*NM*
- 28/04/2010 08:44:27 PM
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Re: I don't believe in luck, so I tend to think they were incompetent and didn't adequately plan.
- 28/04/2010 09:49:19 PM
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- 28/04/2010 09:49:19 PM
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You ever see the movie Idiocrasy? Apparently AoL was like that... *NM*
- 29/04/2010 03:57:05 AM
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What do you mean by evolved?
- 29/04/2010 04:34:38 AM
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Only the strongest survived.
- 29/04/2010 03:04:33 PM
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That's not evolution, that's what follows evolution, cleaning up its messes. *NM*
- 30/04/2010 02:22:03 AM
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Nope, it's evolution. It's the real world that "cleans up" the messes/less useful mutations. *NM*
- 30/04/2010 02:42:43 PM
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Introducing Cannoli's Law of Villainy #1
- 29/04/2010 04:29:29 AM
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True. Witness Hitler, his evil nature caused him to do obviously stupid and self-destructive things
- 29/04/2010 05:54:46 PM
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Re: Forsaken deaths - incompetent or unlucky?
- 30/04/2010 06:39:40 AM
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