Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 31/05/2010 02:17:06 PM
Seems like since we just had a bunch of "Who killed Asmo" debates that we should start another OP Strength debate 
I came across these quotes regarding the Bowl of the Winds and thought it was an interesting comparison to Elayne and Nynaeve, and later in the book we see Egwene pull off a pretty impressive feat with the Windfinders in Cairhien, which Nynaeve tells us she can't outdo by much in WH ...
LoC
Under the Dust
"It is," Elayne exclaimed. "It’s a ter’angreal. And I will bet anything it has something to do with weather. But I’m not quite strong enough to work it by myself."
LoC
A Pile of Sand
In any case, if she could not work the bowl alone, certainly no one in Salidar could. Except Nynaeve, maybe.
I find this interesting because, Elayne is close to strong enough to power the Bowl on her own, but is unsure that Nynaeve alone would be able to manage it either. IMO this tells us that Nynaeve and Elayne aren't that far apart in raw strength.
Here is another set of clues regarding Egwene and Nynaeve
LoC
Summoned in Haste
Drawing a deep breath, she embraced saidar and channeled four flows before the Windfinder could react. So she knew weather, did she? Could she divide her flows four ways? Not many Aes Sedai could. One flow was Spirit, a shield she shoved onto the Windfinder to keep her from interfering. If she knew how. Each of the other three was Air, woven almost delicately around each woman, binding her arms to her sides. Lifting them was not precisely difficult, but not easy either.
A clamor rose on the ship as the women floated into the air and out over the river. Egwene heard the boatman moaning. She was not interested in him. The three Sea Folk women did not even kick. With an effort she hoisted them higher, some ten or twelve paces above the surface; no matter how hard she strained, that seemed to be the limit. Well, you don’t want to actually hurt them, she thought, and released the weaves. They’ll scream now.
Note that an average body weight for an average woman is around 120lbs, Egwene is able to lift 3 women (while splitting her flows 4 ways) 10-12 Spans in the air (so about 360ish lbs, 3-4 stories high). We also know that this was not easy, but clearly not her limit as it wasn't difficult either. Given that Siuan at full strength could lift about 250lbs and Egwene is just a little less than 2x stronger than Siuan was, Egwene may be able to lift around 430-450lbs.
WH
Blue Carp Street
"I saw them," Rand said. "They're inside now. Nynaeve, can you lift Lan and me to that rooftop from the alley behind the building?"
Nynaeve frowned at Zeram's building, rubbing the belt around her waist with one hand. "One at a time, I could," she said finally. "But it would use more than half what the Well holds. I wouldn't be able to lift you down again."
2 men of 6'6" each with all that equipment would weigh in around 250lbs (that's assuming they are both muscular and have some equipment since an average BMI for a man this size would make him more like 200lbs). Nynaeve's Well holds enough Saidar to lift them both the 3 stories to the top of the building, but she cannot do it at the same time. So without splitting her flows Nynaeve cannot lift 500-odd pounds 3 stories.
and yes it's 3 stories she needs to lift them
WH
Blue Carp Street
Since the last of the children married, Milsa's been renting out the top floor. Whenever she finds somebody don't mind being locked in at night, anyway," he laughed. "Milsa had stairs put in right up to the third floor,
Let's assume this is very close for Nynaeve since she has to give it some thought before she says she can't do it... so perhaps Nynaeve's maximum is between 480-500lbs.
For the record, swords are pretty light ... according to The Association for Renaissance Martial Arts: "Medieval Swords are neither unwieldably heavy nor all alike - the average weight of any one of normal size is between 2.5 lb. and 3.5 lbs. Even the big hand-and-a-half 'war' swords rarely weigh more than 4.5 lbs.

I came across these quotes regarding the Bowl of the Winds and thought it was an interesting comparison to Elayne and Nynaeve, and later in the book we see Egwene pull off a pretty impressive feat with the Windfinders in Cairhien, which Nynaeve tells us she can't outdo by much in WH ...
LoC
Under the Dust
"It is," Elayne exclaimed. "It’s a ter’angreal. And I will bet anything it has something to do with weather. But I’m not quite strong enough to work it by myself."
LoC
A Pile of Sand
In any case, if she could not work the bowl alone, certainly no one in Salidar could. Except Nynaeve, maybe.
I find this interesting because, Elayne is close to strong enough to power the Bowl on her own, but is unsure that Nynaeve alone would be able to manage it either. IMO this tells us that Nynaeve and Elayne aren't that far apart in raw strength.
Here is another set of clues regarding Egwene and Nynaeve
LoC
Summoned in Haste
Drawing a deep breath, she embraced saidar and channeled four flows before the Windfinder could react. So she knew weather, did she? Could she divide her flows four ways? Not many Aes Sedai could. One flow was Spirit, a shield she shoved onto the Windfinder to keep her from interfering. If she knew how. Each of the other three was Air, woven almost delicately around each woman, binding her arms to her sides. Lifting them was not precisely difficult, but not easy either.
A clamor rose on the ship as the women floated into the air and out over the river. Egwene heard the boatman moaning. She was not interested in him. The three Sea Folk women did not even kick. With an effort she hoisted them higher, some ten or twelve paces above the surface; no matter how hard she strained, that seemed to be the limit. Well, you don’t want to actually hurt them, she thought, and released the weaves. They’ll scream now.
Note that an average body weight for an average woman is around 120lbs, Egwene is able to lift 3 women (while splitting her flows 4 ways) 10-12 Spans in the air (so about 360ish lbs, 3-4 stories high). We also know that this was not easy, but clearly not her limit as it wasn't difficult either. Given that Siuan at full strength could lift about 250lbs and Egwene is just a little less than 2x stronger than Siuan was, Egwene may be able to lift around 430-450lbs.
WH
Blue Carp Street
"I saw them," Rand said. "They're inside now. Nynaeve, can you lift Lan and me to that rooftop from the alley behind the building?"
Nynaeve frowned at Zeram's building, rubbing the belt around her waist with one hand. "One at a time, I could," she said finally. "But it would use more than half what the Well holds. I wouldn't be able to lift you down again."
2 men of 6'6" each with all that equipment would weigh in around 250lbs (that's assuming they are both muscular and have some equipment since an average BMI for a man this size would make him more like 200lbs). Nynaeve's Well holds enough Saidar to lift them both the 3 stories to the top of the building, but she cannot do it at the same time. So without splitting her flows Nynaeve cannot lift 500-odd pounds 3 stories.
and yes it's 3 stories she needs to lift them
WH
Blue Carp Street
Since the last of the children married, Milsa's been renting out the top floor. Whenever she finds somebody don't mind being locked in at night, anyway," he laughed. "Milsa had stairs put in right up to the third floor,
Let's assume this is very close for Nynaeve since she has to give it some thought before she says she can't do it... so perhaps Nynaeve's maximum is between 480-500lbs.
For the record, swords are pretty light ... according to The Association for Renaissance Martial Arts: "Medieval Swords are neither unwieldably heavy nor all alike - the average weight of any one of normal size is between 2.5 lb. and 3.5 lbs. Even the big hand-and-a-half 'war' swords rarely weigh more than 4.5 lbs.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 31/05/2010 02:17:06 PM
1299 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 31/05/2010 04:18:08 PM
874 Views
I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
- 31/05/2010 07:51:08 PM
768 Views
Egwene plus Aviendha roughly equal Lanfaer. And yet Lanfear isn't close to double Nynaeve's strength
- 31/05/2010 09:07:06 PM
903 Views
Egwene and Aviendha combined in TFoH (when Avi had been channeling for only a few months)
- 31/05/2010 09:22:17 PM
830 Views
We've done this so many times. Even I have lost the strength for it. What can I still muster...
- 31/05/2010 09:38:24 PM
718 Views
again with the interpretive quoting
- 31/05/2010 11:05:58 PM
750 Views
Individual interpretation is all we've got really
- 01/06/2010 06:32:05 PM
693 Views
- 01/06/2010 06:32:05 PM
693 Views
agreed, sort of
- 04/06/2010 12:57:00 PM
708 Views
- 04/06/2010 12:57:00 PM
708 Views
Consider this...
- 04/06/2010 01:21:43 PM
675 Views
You continue to translate things. That is NOT how the quote reads
- 04/06/2010 01:30:43 PM
459 Views
Not my fault if the books prove you wrong
- 04/06/2010 01:41:00 PM
590 Views
I'm denying that you have a clue
- 04/06/2010 01:51:14 PM
641 Views
Bonfire next to a candle. I rest my case.
- 04/06/2010 01:53:59 PM
507 Views
then Nynaeve is the Creator
- 04/06/2010 02:03:27 PM
627 Views
Estimating potential is exact, fragmentary historical notes are not. And RJ disproves your point..
- 04/06/2010 02:57:32 PM
734 Views
The books disagree with this
- 04/06/2010 03:24:46 PM
562 Views
Right, NOW we're getting somewhere...
- 04/06/2010 03:57:32 PM
682 Views
You are hilarious
- 04/06/2010 04:06:37 PM
472 Views
Close the door on your way out...
- 04/06/2010 04:21:11 PM
503 Views
no I just refuse to bother with a jackass who doesn't know the text well enough to debate *NM*
- 04/06/2010 10:35:09 PM
296 Views
Re: agreed, sort of
- 04/06/2010 04:46:59 PM
1367 Views
- 04/06/2010 04:46:59 PM
1367 Views
this doesn't square in any way with Bell Curve though
- 04/06/2010 10:33:04 PM
743 Views
No, Rand was not stronger than the male Forsaken at the start of tSR...
- 01/06/2010 09:27:47 AM
647 Views
Aginor burned out attempting to use the Eye, which Rand managed to do without burning out *NM*
- 01/06/2010 12:06:01 PM
334 Views
The Eye was just a source of the Power - like a well, just bigger.
- 01/06/2010 12:17:29 PM
635 Views
nope
- 01/06/2010 12:52:46 PM
643 Views
Re: I don't know. Elayne knows how strong a woman needs to be in order to activate the Bowl.
- 01/06/2010 02:18:38 AM
728 Views
I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
- 01/06/2010 12:44:20 PM
780 Views
If 3 sisters can hold you, it probaly means you are as strong as 4 sisters...
- 01/06/2010 06:37:01 PM
524 Views
Re: I'm not trying to say that Nynaeve isn't significantly stronger
- 01/06/2010 06:43:08 PM
532 Views
Sidenote: What's with Elayne dumping people into the river?
- 31/05/2010 06:22:26 PM
577 Views
Not Elayne, Egwene in Cairhien. She went to meet the Windfinder and got kicked out. Wasn't awesome *NM*
- 31/05/2010 07:13:25 PM
407 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 31/05/2010 07:21:32 PM
611 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 31/05/2010 07:41:02 PM
633 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 01/06/2010 06:07:35 PM
503 Views
Re: Interesting clues to OP Strength difference between Nynaeve and Elayne/Egwene/Aviendha
- 01/06/2010 06:21:29 PM
515 Views
Remember gatways
- 31/05/2010 09:15:31 PM
568 Views
I agree that it's probably some kind of max height you can lift an object
- 31/05/2010 09:25:25 PM
560 Views
I think lifting people on flows of air is much like weaving bridges.
- 01/06/2010 07:42:59 AM
708 Views
I'm pretty convinced that 'strength' really refers to your skill and experience.
- 01/06/2010 08:35:16 PM
680 Views
Strength is a touchy word in this case...
- 03/06/2010 07:31:19 AM
650 Views
