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The Forsaken are henchmen. Like the eels in The Little Mermaid or the hyenas in The Lion King Cannoli Send a noteboard - 20/07/2010 03:14:37 AM
Those are two separate roles, and his answer misses the point,.

Most of the protagonists never have a moment where they consider rejecting good and embracing evil
As if anyone ever really does that. 8} The point is that they have to fight in the right way and for the right reasons. Just coming out on top or surviving a crisis does not constitute a victory for the heroes.

- this storyline has been Rands' own character arc in the last few books, and even then, it never really explored the possibility that he was conflicted about his choice. Egwene, Mat, Perrin and Nynaeve all have grown, but have never veered off the path of the hero.
Irrelevant, even if it were true. For the most part, they have spent most of their time on personal pursuits and serving their own agendas, rather than any heroic quests or missions. The point is not to choose overt evil or to fight that overt evil, but to do their part to make the world a better place, or stop those who would make it worse. Just because none of them, not even Dark Rand at the worst we saw him in tGS, would have ever chosen to serve the Dark One does not mean their actions and choices have not encompassed the conflict between right and wrong.

Petty, spoiled whiners can become villains precisely because of what they are trying to achieve. A cursory glance at any history book can show you that. It is the petty character flaws that drove them to commit their greatest acts of barbarism, and made them turn into villains. Sure they can be Reborn and perhaps start anew, but the point is that the roles they occupy are as a rogues' gallery and villains/villainesses. No one is saying that they occupy the position as the ultimate evil - we are discussing that they fail to elicit the sense of threat that RJ has said he wants us to believe they represent.
You're the one missing the point - it is the Shadow that serves that threat. The Shadow is 99% Shait'tan and maybe 1% is the Trollocs and Darkfriends of various rank. The Forsaken are no more than glorified Darkfriends. By your standard, Paitr Connl is a villain, too. What you are referring to is the threat posed by the Dark One, who is the reason why such pathetic losers as the Forsaken are actually taken seriously at any time. They are a powerful menace because they have his backing. Rand is powerful because he has the support and obediance of a nation of deadly warriors, an organization of powerful channelers, and several other political entities, as well as the repuation and authority accorded to his generally known role in the present crisis. His power and stature is a sum of the various parties and assets he has accumulated. Whereas the various facets of the enemy forces known as "the Shadow" are simply expressions of the Dark One's power. The Forsaken might have shaped his power into Trollocs and other Shadowspawn and done his will and turned the world to his service through their methods, but without him, they are nothing, and without them, he would have simply found other ways to work his will on the world. They can't do it without him, but if every Forsaken, Dark Friend and Shadowpawn fell over dead, the Blight receded back to the blasted lands, and Shayol Ghul and its hideous facilities crumbled to dust, leaving only a firey toilet with a BIG VOICE in it, he would still be a monstrous deadly threat to the survival of the world and the wheel. Have the Forsaken done nearly the damage to the world as the Dark One's touch that twice fixed the seasons in place to threaten the livlihood of the world? Have they twisted reality so as to reshape buildings and pervert works of art and kill people at random? Is the idea of an anachronistic megalomaniac laying plans for world conquest really more frightening to you people than men suddenly and randomly being consumed alive by insects from the inside or turned into asphalt?

RJ had a Q&A where he was surprised that readers thought the Darkside was not doing too well and he had to describe the situation as the Light being on its' last legs in a boxing match.
Yes, and that is the SHADOW he was talking about, not the Forsaken. The Dark One is the invincible boxer the collective heroes are fighting, and the fearful slaughter Rand has wreaked among the Forsaken is shrugged off as a couple of punches.
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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RJ finally got a villain right, then killed him in the same book. - 15/07/2010 10:10:16 PM 1302 Views
Re: RJ finally got a villain right, then killed him in the same book. - 16/07/2010 03:01:30 AM 755 Views
Ehhh that's a cop-out. And not even totally accurate. - 16/07/2010 08:27:19 AM 598 Views
My view exactly. - 16/07/2010 08:42:47 AM 606 Views
I agree. *NM* - 16/07/2010 09:33:59 AM 189 Views
Yes, basically. - 16/07/2010 01:36:13 PM 532 Views
The Forsaken are not THE villain(s), they are cannon fodder! - 19/07/2010 04:16:04 AM 654 Views
And that's why they're crappy villains - 19/07/2010 07:24:05 AM 453 Views
Cannoli misses the point. The Forsaken are all villains. It is the Dark One that is the true evil - 19/07/2010 04:01:34 PM 551 Views
The Forsaken are henchmen. Like the eels in The Little Mermaid or the hyenas in The Lion King - 20/07/2010 03:14:37 AM 557 Views
Absolutely correct, but you miss the point. - 20/07/2010 02:48:22 PM 436 Views
Exactly. - 20/07/2010 04:08:22 PM 387 Views
My point is simply that you are mistaking their place in the hierarchy - 20/07/2010 11:46:52 PM 493 Views
No, I'm not. And you just proved that you missed the point. - 21/07/2010 03:10:04 PM 413 Views
No - 19/07/2010 08:01:03 PM 464 Views
I'll call your "no" and raise you a "WTH?" - 19/07/2010 08:44:19 PM 437 Views
I'll raise your WTH and give you a WTF - 19/07/2010 09:24:04 PM 506 Views
Re: I'll raise your WTH and give you a WTF - 20/07/2010 02:44:22 AM 553 Views

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