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Re: But how do the Aiel have such a large population? DomA Send a noteboard - 16/01/2012 01:57:02 AM
And what about social inequality? Social inequality in WOT seems almost completely nonexistent outside of maybe Tear (correct me if I'm wrong)

but there seems to be no one below a sort of yeoman farmer level of subsistence anywhere in WOT. Real structural poverty or underclasses never appear directly.

Farmers all seem to own their land. The Borderlands manage to feed and clothe massive urban and military populations in the extreme north without much difficulty or social tension.


Structural poverty leading to social tension? We've seen it in Tanchico and the Rahad in Ebou Dar, for instance. In some nations like Illian and Arad Doman, the merchants hold about as much power (and wealth) as the nobles, but the populations themselves aren't rich.

The farmers aren't necessarily all property owners - you just assume that, when there's evidence that many farmers (whole communities in fact) farm land belonging y to a noble, and to live there they must swear allegiance and agree to send X men to follow the lord under arms when he calls for it, beside paying taxes.

The Two Rivers are living in near autarcy, and exporting wool and tobacco to cover its needs in a limited amount of foreign goods (most of them necessities, not luxuries), and not paying any taxes, but they're the exception.

Tear is exceptional mostly for the greed and harshness of the land-owning nobility, but even in Andor the nobles (over 400 houses...) hold vast domains (Elayne alone owns several for House Trakand, not as Queen), all with farming families, servants, services and so on. Mining revenues from her lands goes back to her. It seems most of the land-owning farmers are found spread all around Caemlyn, as the whole area is under direct control of the Lion Throne, and around the other cities as they aren't under control of the Houses (Baerlon itself is in control of the crown, because the nearby resources in iron are considered vital to the nation. Aringil seems under crown-control as well). The Houses own the countryside of Andor, however.

How do the Borderlands manage? Because of the Blight, simply enough. It is a very real and permanent threat, and a whole class of society needs to devote itself to protecting the rest from it. Together, the two of them protect the rest of humanity from the threat of the Blight, and after three millenia, that is deeply ingrained socially. There's no lack of space or serious limitations to migration.

In Saldaea for example, the system is feudal or near feudal. Davram Bashere owns huge domains, Tenobia herself owns other huge chunks of the country. Bashere's liege to a ton of lower nobles, who serve as officers under him, with their own liegemen as soldiers. Faile called him the biggest farmer of Saldaea, but he's not doing the farming himself...

The Borderland lords wouldn't oppress their populace, beside the cultural/social traits that prevent them for acting as southern nobles, with the short summers and their heavy winter needs for food and resources to fight off the Shadowspawn raids, any big peasant revolt could threaten the nation. The populace wouldn't see revolts as a viable mean to complain either, they most likely turn to the crown whenever they have issues with the local nobility.

They don't have huge urban centers (not really comparable to those in the South), they have fairly big capitals which act as military centers, and double as trade centers. The rest is towns, mostly secondary military outposts, or seats of lords acting as fortresses. Most farming populations spread around those fortresses, to seek its protection when necessary. Nearly everything in the Borderlands is focussed on holding the threat of the Blight at bay.

And finally, the Aiel have the Gai'shan (a rather neat way of dealing with labor in the waste).


Not really. There are not tons of gai'shain, don't let what Sevanna's done fool you. Only a small percentage of Aiel are gai'shain at any given time. Sevanna's the one who've started to see them as a free work force and wealth, after witnessing Cairhienin nobility and how their populace served them. Most gai'shain seem to do fairly menial tasks, all considered. If they were not there, and before and after they are there, the Aiel manage without. Making someone gai'shain is a matter of honor for the Aiel, not economy. The situations in which you can make someone gai'shain are pretty limited too, only Sevanna declared gai'shain anyone she captured... The fact most of them are seen serving the Wise Ones or clan chiefs is a good clue that many Aiel probably have not much for a gai'shain to do, and prefer to leave them in the service of their WO, clan chief or holdmistress.

The Aiel have large populations because they're practiced the survival of the fittest for three millenia. Their warrior culture has made them extremely resilient. Each generation, the strong survive, the weakest die, and over the millenia a "weak Aiel" as become a very relative thing.... At this point, they're an incredibly resilient people, and fertile. Their system insures that they can raise all the children their resources allow, and safely, and when a hold has outgrown itself, it splits in two. Their vision of extended "families" and their marriage customs prevent genetic problems.

The social system, including how far they extend the concept of family, also garantee a fairly communal system, sharing resources and preventing waste and stockpiling by a few favored individuals at the expense of the hold. Some Aiel have far more baubles than others, but on the whole it seems resources are pretty much held in common by a whole hold. Nobody starves. They've totally adapted to their environment, and have learned to make the most of it and lose no resource to an extent the Wetlands wouldn't dream of.


Their leadership system works, and generally puts the most able (intelligent) individuals in charge. We've seen mostly the WO/clan chief parts, but this is probably just as true of the holdmistresses. In Rhuidean, their leaders also learn their true purposes, and get a sense of how and why the Aiel must survive, and this shapes their decisions as leaders.

- Their whole system is meant to put them in a state of "wargames" rather a true state of war. Aiel don't seek to annihilate their (aiel) enemies. They have all kinds of taboos that ensure that their raids won't result in the destruction, or seriously endangering the survival of, an enemy hold. They can't even loot more than 20% of the value of any hold they defeat...

- Their limited contacts with the outside has insured that their system, which works as long as it remains a closed and very conservative system, was not polluted by "innovations" that could have derailed it (case in point: Sevanna)

The Waste is also very vast, and apparently full of pockets where an hardworking and tough people can thrive, living sparingly. When resources grow scarce, they move. With their very limited clashes with outside enemies (only a few times in three millenia), with their extremely codified "warfare", it's not so surprising the Aiel people has expanded so much, given so much time.
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Wow! Incredible post, the Aiel make so much more sense now *NM* - 14/01/2012 07:48:41 PM 334 Views
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But how do the Aiel have such a large population? - 15/01/2012 08:08:42 PM 1577 Views
Re: But how do the Aiel have such a large population? - 16/01/2012 01:57:02 AM 1010 Views
Some excellent points - 16/01/2012 03:23:50 AM 922 Views
Very interesting. - 16/01/2012 12:55:53 AM 888 Views

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