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Re: I don't agree with some of this Sidious Send a noteboard - 29/09/2009 08:25:19 PM

That's not quite true. We have seen a number of examples where a channeler of lesser strength can create better/more potent weaves than a person of greater strength can, even though she uses less saidar to do so. Channelers with exceptional Talents, like with Shields, for example. Call it a matter of greater Precision, or something else, but whatever it is, it is NOT raw strength. So in a sense, the OP behaves more potently for the channeler, in these particular instances.

Suppose linking into a mixed circle essentially gives the leader greater Precision in ALL weaves (akin to have a Talent) than he/she would have had channeling alone. So now, for example, a male can create a more potent fireball using just saidin than he could without linking.

Raw strength isn't all that matters by a long shot, I agree. However, as I've continuously mentioned the advantage of linking is due to a singular focus of multiple energies according to the BWB - and that includes mixed links. Mixed links merely gain more because saidin and saidar work together.

My original post explained this, also, using my idea. Using my Precision analogy above, it would mean simply that the degree of Precision benefit depends on the balance of men and women in the circle. The greater the balance, the greater the precision.

Which means that if a male uses both powers in balance the advantage will be maximal but if he uses only the one power, the benefit would be minimal or nothing. Nothing, in my opinion.

But the potency of a weave is not ONLY a function of the raw amount of OP used. That's been shown in the series numerous times, for single channelers, so why no for mixed circles, also?

Yes, but this is obvious. Mixing the two powers creates an exponential effect, because they repel and attract one another, and thus the density of the power improves IMO. But once again, they have to actually be used together.

Why? Just because Daigian is drawing a whisper of saidin doesn't mean she's weaving it into whatever she weaves. She could simply be holding it, to maintain the link, while she weaves saidar only. Most channelers can do more than one thing with the OP simultaneously, so it's quite likely she could weave saidar only while separately grasping a whisper of saidin through Eben without actually using it for anything.

No it's not possible. The leader of a circle doesn't hold more than her own potential ever. In fact, Daigian is physically unable to hold saidin at all. Only Eben can hold saidin. If some is flowing into Daigain it means she is pulling some in to maintain the link, but she merely acts as a conduit for a brief time. A circle is not like an angreal as you know, Daigian is limited by her own strength, but can draw on his. If she draws on none of his power, there may still be some required to pass through him just to maintain the link... as hinted by his PoV. Therefore maybe less than 1% of his strength will pass into her to maintain the circle from his side, but it will invariably get used in her weaving even on a small scale. I think that the circle doesn't allow total exclusion of any member of the circle.

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This message last edited by Sidious on 29/09/2009 at 08:28:58 PM

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Male/Female circles whoohtown - 25/09/2009 09:33:38 PM 1002 Views

Yes; somewhat. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/09/2009 10:57:35 PM 692 Views

Re: Yes; somewhat. Sidious - 26/09/2009 06:19:45 AM 607 Views

Why would saidar surprise him? fionwe1987 - 26/09/2009 03:40:23 PM 658 Views

Re: Why would saidar surprise him? Sidious - 26/09/2009 06:34:04 PM 626 Views

He thought they were Aes Sedai who could not channel?

fionwe1987 - 26/09/2009 07:02:42 PM 566 Views

He did not know they were Aes Sedai until after the mixed weave struck his warding. Shannow - 26/09/2009 10:13:10 PM 554 Views

You're right. I misremembered. *NM* fionwe1987 - 26/09/2009 10:17:22 PM 260 Views

right... whoohtown - 26/09/2009 02:56:26 PM 623 Views

Re: right... Timthetrolloc - 26/09/2009 07:49:21 PM 602 Views

I think Lanfear clears this up... Heiko - 27/09/2009 05:19:37 AM 637 Views

But he did see the weaves AgentOrange - 29/09/2009 03:38:10 PM 579 Views

Agreed, plus some numbers ... Shishka - 28/09/2009 07:50:54 PM 569 Views

I don't agree with some of this Sidious - 28/09/2009 09:37:13 PM 580 Views

Re: I don't agree with some of this Shishka - 29/09/2009 02:39:46 PM 608 Views

Re: I don't agree with some of this Sidious - 29/09/2009 06:07:56 PM 559 Views

Re: I don't agree with some of this Shishka - 29/09/2009 07:00:28 PM 575 Views

Re: I don't agree with some of this Sidious - 29/09/2009 08:25:19 PM 678 Views

I understand what you're saying ... Shishka - 30/09/2009 04:04:17 PM 591 Views

Indeed Sidious - 30/09/2009 04:32:37 PM 539 Views

Re: Indeed Shishka - 30/09/2009 07:05:13 PM 595 Views

Some proof against your idea... fionwe1987 - 01/10/2009 03:37:48 AM 569 Views

Nice, thanks ... Shishka - 01/10/2009 02:00:24 PM 547 Views

Re: Nice, thanks ... Sidious - 01/10/2009 04:58:02 PM 597 Views

That makes more sense, to me ... Shishka - 01/10/2009 06:44:44 PM 653 Views

Re: That makes more sense, to me ... Sidious - 03/10/2009 06:53:45 AM 669 Views

Re: Male/Female circles eromreven - 27/09/2009 02:19:31 PM 569 Views

Re: Male/Female circles Code_Man65 - 28/09/2009 03:58:15 PM 572 Views

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<quote id="26834"><quote>That's not quite true.  We have seen a number of examples where a channeler of lesser strength can create better/more potent weaves than a person of greater strength can, even though she uses less saidar to do so.  Channelers with exceptional Talents, like with Shields, for example.  Call it a matter of greater Precision, or something else, but whatever it is, it is NOT raw strength.  So in a sense, the OP behaves more potently for the channeler, in these particular instances.</quote>

<quote id="26834">Suppose linking into a mixed circle essentially gives the leader greater Precision in ALL weaves (akin to have a Talent) than he/she would have had channeling alone.  So now, for example, a male can create a more potent fireball using just saidin than he could without linking.</quote></quote>

<quote id="26834">Raw strength isn't all that matters by a long shot, I agree. However, as I've continuously mentioned the advantage of linking is due to a singular focus of multiple energies according to the BWB - and that includes mixed links. Mixed links merely gain more because saidin and saidar work together.</quote>

<quote id="26834"><quote>My original post explained this, also, using my idea.  Using my Precision analogy above, it would mean simply that the degree of Precision benefit depends on the balance of men and women in the circle.  The greater the balance, the greater the precision.</quote></quote>

<quote id="26834">Which means that if a male uses both powers in balance the advantage will be maximal but if he uses only the one power, the benefit would be minimal or nothing. Nothing, in my opinion.</quote>

<quote id="26834"><quote>But the potency of a weave is not ONLY a function of the raw amount of OP used.  That's been shown in the series numerous times, for single channelers, so why no for mixed circles, also?</quote></quote>

<quote id="26834">Yes, but this is obvious. Mixing the two powers creates an exponential effect, because they repel and attract one another, and thus the density of the power improves IMO. But once again, they have to actually be used together.</quote>

<quote id="26834"><quote>Why?  Just because Daigian is drawing a whisper of saidin doesn't mean she's weaving it into whatever she weaves.  She could simply be holding it, to maintain the link, while she weaves saidar only.  Most channelers can do more than one thing with the OP simultaneously, so it's quite likely she could weave saidar only while separately grasping a whisper of saidin through Eben without actually using it for anything.</quote></quote>

<quote id="26834">No it's not possible. The leader of a circle doesn't hold more than her own potential ever. In fact, Daigian is physically unable to hold saidin at all. Only Eben can hold saidin. If some is flowing into Daigain it means she is pulling some in to maintain the link, but she merely acts as a conduit for a brief time. A circle is not like an angreal as you know, Daigian is limited by her own strength, but can draw on his. If she draws on none of his power, there may still be some required to pass through him just to maintain the link... as hinted by his PoV. Therefore maybe less than 1% of his strength will pass into her to maintain the circle from his side, but it will invariably get used in her weaving even on a small scale. I think that the circle doesn't allow total exclusion of any member of the circle.</quote>

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