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Re: Who comes out looking worst in the Egwene-Suana encounter? Egwene, Suana or B-Sand? Mat_Cauthon33 Send a noteboard - 27/11/2009 08:43:42 PM

The first, independent of the other choices, is that Suana is a retard and the worst pick to head the Yellow. "We are channelers who love to fix stuff. Even if you are no good at using the Power to fix people, if you only even wish you could, you should join us." Seriously? What next? Illiterates, who nonetheless, REALLY like knowing stuff, joining the Brown Ajah? Women joining the logic Ajah...oh, wait. Bad example. In any event, this sentiment is completely at odds with the other Yellows' indicated mindset. If Suana is right, any ends whatsoever should be acceptable and justified, when in fact we see that the Yellows are Healing snobs. Variations on Healing, until deomnstrably proven superior in front of a crowd too big to make the controversy go away, are scorned. Herbs are scorned. The Yellows would not have been complaining about being dragooned into the cuendillar project if they like fixing things in general.

I've been saying for years that you don't need to be good at Healing to be in the Yellows. It's merely where your interest lies. I actually think there are Yellows who are only average at Healing and have to strain to Heal a broken arm. Consider that Anaiya is Blue but is a good healer... she doesn't want to be Yellow. There are probably weak healers in the Yellows who have adept political skill, but they're not interested in being Blue. The ajah isn't their permanent occupation or even their identity really - it's where they live and who their friends are, and what their attitude towards the Power is. You need to hate men to be a Red - that's hardly more trivial than if you like to fix things.

Related is the issue of Suana's plants. Egwene phrases her reaction to the room full of plants oddly. “And Nynaeve complained that the sisters in the White Tower ignored the use of herbs! If only she could spend some time with plump, round-faced Suana.” There are two ways to interpret this passage, in addition to noting the oddity of Suana's attitude, completely at odds with EVERY Yellow among the rebels. The first is that Egwene is immediately falling into her old habits of scoffing at Nynaeve. Something on the order of "What IS that crazy bitch going on about? Yellows do too love plants. Just look at this place! A second issue with Egwene's perception is that she equates Suana's vegetables with Nynaeve's medicinal herbs. The only types specifically mentioned are vegetables and spices. There is nothing aside from their common floral nature to tie what Suana does to refute Nynaeve's complaint. In fact, it reinforces Nynaeve's complaint!

Because Nynaeve is rarely right about anything. Between Egwene and Nynaeve, Egwene got all the brains. Nynaeve is just emotion that you need to aim. Nynaeve stubbornly believes in her stupid herbs but not only are they greatly inferior even to the meanest Healing, but they probably don't work AT ALL.

Nynaeve: Even if they are not as useful as Healing, herbs are a part of the healing arts and understanding them cannot hurt a sister's comprehension & use of her Talent. All the sisters I know are very resistant to this concept, and even belittle me for making use of herbal medicines.
Egwene: Hah! That's where you're wrong Nynaeve! In her rooms in the Tower, Suana has a garden set up where she grows carrots and radishes.
Nynaeve:

...Wow. Nothing like finding out you have just wasted all those years I spent teaching you about medicine.

It was a passing comment with no weight from Egwene. Besides, you don't know how the Tower has changed. Perhaps forkroot has created some interest in herbs.

Of course there is a worse option: SUANA could think they're medicinal. I shudder to contemplate what she prescribes carrots to cure.
Suana: Lonlieness.
Nynaeve: Nice try, but for that, I prefer to give cucumbers...

Or instead of Healing the injured all day she's a normal person with hobbies, like growing plants.

Anyway, as I was saying, you can interpret that quote as Egwene snarking off against Nynaeve, simply because she has a positive reaction to Suana, or else she is on Nynaeve's side and saying it's too bad Nynaeve could not meet Suana because they have so much in common. However, that quote is just about the worst way to express the latter sentiment and carries a very strong connotation of the former interpretation. Additionally, the oddly place description of Suana in that quote, where it is not at all relevant to the idea of the sentence highlights the awkwardness, IMO.

Or more likely Egwene entered the room and saw lots of plants, so her mind jumped to healing Herbs because she was in the room of the LEADER OF THE AJAH.

So what is it? Is Suana a nincompoop? And if she is not, and her positions assserted and implied in this chapter more accurately reflect the Yellow ethos, in complete contradistinction to all of Nynaeve's experiences in Salidar, what does that say about the sort of Yellows who joined the rebellion, and incidentally, chose Egwene as their leader? Is Egwene, once again, bitchily scoffing at or slighting an old Two Rivers friend because she likes a shiny new acquaintance? Or do both or either issues reflect the inability of Sanderson to properly articulate characterizations?

The scene can be summarized as...
- Egwene notices things and keeps them to herself.
- Suana has hobbies.

Amen. Brandon did a phenomenal job. This nit picking and finding fault with his writing is pretty stupid. If it was his own worlds that he created and contradicted it would be different, but is there anyone out there who can write like Jordan? Does Cannoli have any links to his own writings? Maybe he should post a link so we can all read and critique.

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Who comes out looking worst in the Egwene-Suana encounter? Egwene, Suana or B-Sand? Cannoli - 27/11/2009 04:16:18 PM 1609 Views

Re: Who comes out looking worst in the Egwene-Suana encounter? Egwene, Suana or B-Sand? darius_sedai - 27/11/2009 06:30:31 PM 660 Views

I interpreted it as Branderson trying to make the Yellow more believable. lord-of-shadow - 27/11/2009 07:09:43 PM 768 Views

Re: I interpreted it as Branderson trying to make the Yellow more believable. Cannoli - 27/11/2009 08:16:48 PM 694 Views

anti-Nynaeve? darius_sedai - 27/11/2009 08:26:54 PM 674 Views

But that is not the connotation of Egwene's comment. Cannoli - 27/11/2009 08:45:40 PM 752 Views

I disagree darius_sedai - 27/11/2009 09:01:04 PM 640 Views

Cannoli comes out looking like crap. RtDB! fionwe1987 - 27/11/2009 07:51:53 PM 688 Views

Re: Cannoli comes out looking like crap. RtDB! darius_sedai - 27/11/2009 08:19:46 PM 598 Views

He's doing a crappy job of that, too. Cannoli - 27/11/2009 08:37:06 PM 659 Views

Re: Cannoli comes out looking like crap. RtDB! fionwe1987 - 27/11/2009 11:06:06 PM 656 Views

Please recall that you have admitted an inferior understanding of American English connotations. Cannoli - 27/11/2009 08:23:41 PM 660 Views

Yes. I admit to not being fully familiar with a third rate rip off of a language I speak. So? fionwe1987 - 27/11/2009 11:18:39 PM 599 Views

How can Egwene know she's unskilled if she's never Healed? darius_sedai - 28/11/2009 12:19:58 AM 591 Views

Simple... fionwe1987 - 28/11/2009 01:16:44 AM 606 Views

I can see that for weaves they aren't stong enough darius_sedai - 28/11/2009 01:35:43 AM 560 Views

Nitpicking. Rand al'Thor - 27/11/2009 08:18:02 PM 677 Views

Actually it's trying to sort who is to blame for various idiocies. Cannoli - 27/11/2009 08:25:28 PM 640 Views

hrmm Yunalesca - 27/11/2009 11:12:04 PM 534 Views

Re: Who comes out looking worst in the Egwene-Suana encounter? Egwene, Suana or B-Sand? Sidious - 27/11/2009 08:27:29 PM 721 Views

Re: Who comes out looking worst in the Egwene-Suana encounter? Egwene, Suana or B-Sand? Mat_Cauthon33 - 27/11/2009 08:43:42 PM 683 Views

I agree that B-Sand did an excellent job overall darius_sedai - 27/11/2009 08:51:41 PM 656 Views

Re: I agree that B-Sand did an excellent job overall Sidious - 27/11/2009 09:12:14 PM 561 Views

Re: I agree that B-Sand did an excellent job overall darius_sedai - 27/11/2009 09:15:01 PM 584 Views

Re: I agree that B-Sand did an excellent job overall Sidious - 27/11/2009 09:20:17 PM 532 Views

You are correct! darius_sedai - 27/11/2009 09:21:08 PM 516 Views

Why would I justify obviously right actions? Cannoli - 27/11/2009 09:25:45 PM 616 Views

This sounds like the descriptions I've heard of The Sword of Truth. Fanatic-Templar - 27/11/2009 10:01:33 PM 543 Views

Have you actually read that? It's so booooooring. Cannoli - 27/11/2009 09:23:27 PM 555 Views

Well it's the raving of a lunatic darius_sedai - 27/11/2009 09:26:27 PM 553 Views

like the scene at natrin's barrows? moondog - 28/11/2009 05:56:21 PM 600 Views

This line gave me a laugh... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/11/2009 12:44:14 AM 587 Views

Re: Who comes out looking worst in the Egwene-Suana encounter? Egwene, Suana or B-Sand? Cannoli - 27/11/2009 09:17:58 PM 603 Views

Re: Who comes out looking worst in the Egwene-Suana encounter? Egwene, Suana or B-Sand? Sidious - 27/11/2009 09:31:23 PM 577 Views

Nice one, Mr. Chauvinist, but you do make a point, too Lordling - 27/11/2009 09:19:33 PM 591 Views

Re: Who comes out looking worst in the Egwene-Suana encounter? Egwene, Suana or B-Sand? Insomdeon - 27/11/2009 10:19:14 PM 563 Views

Re: Who comes out looking worst in the Egwene-Suana encounter? Egwene, Suana or B-Sand? rAndy aL - 28/11/2009 01:32:57 AM 621 Views

Yes. A VERY lame joke. Cannoli - 28/11/2009 11:20:34 AM 765 Views

Lets look at it in perspective Ryan - 28/11/2009 02:23:37 AM 630 Views

Deconstruction of failed comprehension TheUltimateReality - 30/11/2009 10:04:24 PM 535 Views

I was reminded of Elaida's liking for plants guttering flame - 01/12/2009 07:51:31 AM 534 Views

Silly Cannoli BlackAdder - 01/12/2009 11:41:21 PM 825 Views

You got to admit, reading Cannoli is fun!

*NM* Skeeve the Great - 10/12/2009 02:46:01 AM 240 Views

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<quote id="53773">
<quote id="53767"><quote>The first, independent of the other choices, is that Suana is a retard and the worst pick to head the Yellow. "We are channelers who love to fix stuff. Even if you are no good at using the Power to fix people, if you only even wish you could, you should join us." Seriously? What next? Illiterates, who nonetheless, REALLY like knowing stuff, joining the Brown Ajah? Women joining the logic Ajah...oh, wait. Bad example. In any event, this sentiment is completely at odds with the other Yellows' indicated mindset. If Suana is right, any ends whatsoever should be acceptable and justified, when in fact we see that the Yellows are Healing snobs. Variations on Healing, until deomnstrably proven superior in front of a crowd too big to make the controversy go away, are scorned. Herbs are scorned. The Yellows would not have been complaining about being dragooned into the cuendillar project if they like fixing things in general. </quote>

I've been saying for years that you don't need to be good at Healing to be in the Yellows. It's merely where your interest lies. I actually think there are Yellows who are only average at Healing and have to strain to Heal a broken arm. Consider that Anaiya is Blue but is a good healer... she doesn't want to be Yellow.  There are probably weak healers in the Yellows who have adept political skill, but they're not interested in being Blue. The ajah isn't their permanent occupation or even their identity really - it's where they live and who their friends are, and what their attitude towards the Power is. You need to hate men to be a Red - that's hardly more trivial than if you like to fix things.

<quote>Related is the issue of Suana's plants. Egwene phrases her reaction to the room full of plants oddly. “And Nynaeve complained that the sisters in the White Tower ignored the use of herbs! If only she could spend some time with plump, round-faced Suana.” There are two ways to interpret this passage, in addition to noting the oddity of Suana's attitude, completely at odds with EVERY Yellow among the rebels. The first is that Egwene is immediately falling into her old habits of scoffing at Nynaeve. Something on the order of "What IS that crazy bitch going on about? Yellows do too love plants. Just look at this place! A second issue with Egwene's perception is that she equates Suana's vegetables with Nynaeve's medicinal herbs. The only types specifically mentioned are vegetables and spices. There is nothing aside from their common floral nature to tie what Suana does to refute Nynaeve's complaint. In fact, it reinforces Nynaeve's complaint! </quote>

<quote>Nynaeve: Even if they are not as useful as Healing, herbs are a part of the healing arts and understanding them cannot hurt a sister's comprehension & use of her Talent. All the sisters I know are very resistant to this concept, and even belittle me for making use of herbal medicines.
Egwene: Hah! That's where you're wrong Nynaeve! In her rooms in the Tower, Suana has a garden set up where she grows carrots and radishes. 
Nynaeve: :banghead: ...Wow. Nothing like finding out you have just wasted all those years I spent teaching you about medicine.</quote>

It was a passing comment with no weight from Egwene. Besides, you don't know how the Tower has changed. Perhaps forkroot has created some interest in herbs.

<quote>Of course there is a worse option: SUANA could think they're medicinal. I shudder to contemplate what she prescribes carrots to cure. 
Suana: Lonlieness.
Nynaeve: Nice try, but for that, I prefer to give cucumbers...</quote>

Or instead of Healing the injured all day she's a normal person with hobbies, like growing plants.

<quote>Anyway, as I was saying, you can interpret that quote as Egwene snarking off against Nynaeve, simply because she has a positive reaction to Suana, or else she is on Nynaeve's side and saying it's too bad Nynaeve could not meet Suana because they have so much in common. However, that quote is just about the worst way to express the latter sentiment and carries a very strong connotation of the former interpretation. Additionally, the oddly place description of Suana in that quote, where it is not at all relevant to the idea of the sentence highlights the awkwardness, IMO.</quote>

Or more likely Egwene entered the room and saw lots of plants, so her mind jumped to healing Herbs because she was in the room of the LEADER OF THE AJAH.

<quote>So what is it? Is Suana a nincompoop? And if she is not, and her positions assserted and implied in this chapter more accurately reflect the Yellow ethos, in complete contradistinction to all of Nynaeve's experiences in Salidar, what does that say about the sort of Yellows who joined the rebellion, and incidentally, chose Egwene as their leader? Is Egwene, once again, bitchily scoffing at or slighting an old Two Rivers friend because she likes a shiny new acquaintance? Or do both or either issues reflect the inability of Sanderson to properly articulate characterizations? </quote>

The scene can be summarized as...
- Egwene notices things and keeps them to herself.
- Suana has hobbies.</quote>

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