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Don't damn me, damn Graendal Abunderment Send a noteboard - 09/12/2009 12:51:18 PM
And damn you for making me defend Egwene.

It's okay. Your argument is sufficiently weak that it is no real defence. You are free of this burden, and may remove the curse.

But don't fault her for putting an end to 50 BA. She learned her lesson from Moggy's escape.

If she'd waited to collar the known BA in her own camp, it's very likely she would have lost ALL of them, and not just those in the tower.

Why "very likely"? This is a preposterous assertion.

What evidence is there that the BA plans an attack? NONE

What evidence that they could carry out an attack if they planned it? NONE

What evidence that she could protect herself in such event? GOOD

Moggy's situation was rather unusual, don't you think? Not too many parallels. Chosen, a'dam, being used as a teacher by accepted, can implicate girls as phoney AS, released by a male.

I think that fact that none of the 50 Salidar AS even twigged is actually more interesting. Shows their uselessness.

Egwene had no idea that the WT AS were going to name her Amyrlin that very day.


Because she MADE NO ATTEMPT TO FIND OUT. Had she sent spies she may well have.

Irrespective, she did not even contemplate the possibility. Which is odd, given that this was all she has been working for.

Ignorance is not generally the best of defences.

She thought Elaida was still in charge in the tower.

But a false assumption. See previous.

She had no way to know otherwise. If there were some feasible method for spying on internal tower doings, the rebels would have been doing that from day one of the siege.

Yeah right. Are you suffering Graendel compulsion?

They could travel into tower and look about. Use Accepted/kin. Use AS with a brain. The Aes Sedai have A RIGHT to be there anyway.

Travel in some smart soldiers, washerwomen etc to TV or grounds and get intelligence.

Travel to the dungeon where the BA hunters are holding prisoners and talk to guards. Unlikely they will betray anyone.

Travel into Elaida's Office and ask her.

Use T'AR to spy. (Egwene and any with the last ring)

Given that Tower AS can travel into Tower, the assumption that the Salidar AS would-have-if-they-could-have-so-thus-they-can't seems cavalier. The AS are not perfect, you know.

I'm not arguing that it wouldn't have been better if she'd waited and enacted her plan after the tower was united, but she had to act on the information and situation she was facing AT THE TIME. She did not have access to our omniscient reader's POV, or the advantage of hindsight.

My point was that Egwene is not perfect because her command decisions were sub-optimal.

Yes, she had to guess. As do all commanders. And hers were (in hindsight) poor. There is no other way to judge such things, but in hindsight!!! The Allies won WWII. We still say "in hindsight, appeasing Hitler was a mistake". We still say "Churchill was a lone voice in opposing appeasement". In hindsight, was Chamberlain right? Or Churchill? Surely they can't both be?

Egwene's deadlines were her own. She was not compelled to reveal her BA knowledge. She was not compelled to march on tower. These were CHOICES.

As readers we are not omniscient. If we were, this site would be irrelevant. We have but snippets of information.

Most readers seem to think BA were about to attack or flee en masse. Why?

Most readers seem to think marching on Tower made sense. Why?

The fact that Siuan made a mistake in "saving" Egwene seems to be also accepted. Why?

These are my 3 examples of Egwene being a sub-optimal leader. Thus showing she is not "perfect" but flawed - no less so than, say, Rand. Just because RJ/BS fawn over EaV does not mean we have to.

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Semirhage and Egwene redqueen - 04/12/2009 02:31:45 PM 1889 Views
I agree with all of that. nossy - 04/12/2009 02:58:48 PM 1130 Views
Re: I agree with all of that. *NM* Sidious - 04/12/2009 03:22:49 PM 547 Views
Re: I agree with all of that. nossy - 04/12/2009 03:29:46 PM 1074 Views
Re: I agree with all of that. Sidious - 04/12/2009 03:33:03 PM 1089 Views
Re: I agree with all of that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/12/2009 04:13:55 PM 959 Views
The entire cast is full of Perfect Sues and Stuarts (I may have just made latter up) RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/12/2009 03:14:27 PM 1119 Views
If you plan to write that review before the last two books are out, you better get re-reading now. *NM* Insomdeon - 04/12/2009 03:20:31 PM 491 Views
I'm actually pretty comfortable with it! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/12/2009 04:12:32 PM 1051 Views
Re: I'm actually pretty comfortable with it! darius_sedai - 04/12/2009 06:50:10 PM 1064 Views
about Semirhage Sidious - 04/12/2009 03:21:32 PM 1446 Views
but nossy - 04/12/2009 03:26:29 PM 1014 Views
Re: but Sidious - 04/12/2009 03:35:52 PM 1004 Views
Re: but nossy - 04/12/2009 03:46:00 PM 1133 Views
Re: but Sidious - 04/12/2009 03:51:03 PM 1034 Views
Cadsuane is rather close to perfect herself. Legolas - 04/12/2009 08:37:21 PM 1170 Views
Re: but TaskmasterJack - 04/12/2009 05:04:12 PM 1015 Views
Re: but WAV - 04/12/2009 05:41:51 PM 1046 Views
She was never THAT person. Wotmaniac Reborn - 06/12/2009 01:22:39 AM 986 Views
Never WHAT person? nossy - 06/12/2009 10:21:43 PM 1038 Views
I'm not sure I agree Sidious - 08/12/2009 12:54:43 PM 879 Views
I agree! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/12/2009 04:31:24 PM 977 Views
Re: about Semirhage redqueen - 04/12/2009 08:16:15 PM 1020 Views
Alas, Semirhage was actually an idiot Etzel - 04/12/2009 05:03:48 PM 1149 Views
Re: Alas, Semirhage was actually an idiot darius_sedai - 04/12/2009 06:42:41 PM 1041 Views
If one compares the characters... Etzel - 05/12/2009 11:24:16 AM 939 Views
Did I miss Rand's marriage ceremonies? I always thought the three girls only bonded him *NM* Voscaia Sedai - 05/12/2009 11:27:36 AM 480 Views
You are right... Etzel - 05/12/2009 12:21:59 PM 1006 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 05/12/2009 05:11:28 PM 971 Views
Egwene had the best mix of teachers and a desire to learn. Most believable, IMO. *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/12/2009 10:17:56 PM 501 Views
That's really nonsense Etzel - 05/12/2009 11:13:20 AM 930 Views
I think your perception is very skewed darius_sedai - 05/12/2009 05:16:46 PM 984 Views
Agreed Sidious - 05/12/2009 06:15:46 PM 996 Views
Bull! fionwe1987 - 06/12/2009 02:55:13 AM 979 Views
Rabbit! BlackAdder - 06/12/2009 04:14:10 AM 920 Views
Re: Alas, Semirhage was actually an idiot Sidious - 05/12/2009 06:11:40 PM 969 Views
Indeed darius_sedai - 05/12/2009 06:30:39 PM 1042 Views
And yet Egwene is still a fool regarding Gawyn. Lord Haart - 04/12/2009 05:44:49 PM 1065 Views
Gawyn is a fool all of his own redqueen - 04/12/2009 08:02:10 PM 1023 Views
Re: Gawyn is a fool all of his own Lord Haart - 05/12/2009 05:54:11 AM 933 Views
Please stop - your use of logic here is sickening! BlackAdder - 06/12/2009 04:43:31 AM 984 Views
I disagree with most of that rAndy aL - 05/12/2009 10:58:12 AM 1038 Views
Egwene has a long way to go ... Abunderment - 05/12/2009 06:16:31 PM 1081 Views
Hardly a blunder Nameless Ashaman - 06/12/2009 01:43:54 AM 976 Views
Re: Hardly a blunder? Send Egwene back to Silviana. Abunderment - 07/12/2009 04:03:08 PM 999 Views
Or she her rescue forced her hand. She lost her advantage darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 04:47:56 PM 868 Views
She lost her advantage?!? Siuan probably saved her life Abunderment - 09/12/2009 11:57:26 AM 984 Views
darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 03:24:34 PM 1019 Views
She should have attacked when they first arrived Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 09:35:33 PM 905 Views
Don't damn me, damn Graendal Abunderment - 09/12/2009 12:51:18 PM 935 Views
Re: Don't damn me, damn Graendal Nameless Ashaman - 09/12/2009 06:11:53 PM 1118 Views
A couple of points darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 07:11:18 PM 992 Views
Yes, the Aes Sedai need to rediscover the meaning of "servants of all" *NM* BlackAdder - 06/12/2009 05:03:19 AM 988 Views
I'm re-reading the series now for the first time in years. Egwene has always been a weak character. Master Radishes - 07/12/2009 01:12:15 AM 972 Views
LOL *NM* Sidious - 07/12/2009 04:29:56 AM 421 Views
I think you'll find few people who agree with you on both of those counts... Legolas - 07/12/2009 01:53:58 PM 1007 Views
Not at all. Master Radishes - 07/12/2009 03:20:38 PM 918 Views
Irritating teen spirits ... Abunderment - 07/12/2009 04:32:51 PM 1019 Views
As long as the bags were Louis Vuitton all would be fine *NM* darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 04:51:13 PM 540 Views
You must not have been reading the same series I have. Legolas - 07/12/2009 10:33:23 PM 1107 Views
Re: You must not have been reading the same series I have. Abunderment - 09/12/2009 01:12:56 PM 938 Views
Re: You must not have been reading the same series I have. Legolas - 09/12/2009 02:59:04 PM 1132 Views
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