Gateway size and One Power strength - a theoretical model...
Shannow Send a noteboard - 15/12/2009 08:42:26 AM
After reviewing the evidence in the books, I believe that a clear link between gateway size and One Power strength can be established. Although this has been raised before, I believe that the inconsistencies previously raised can all be addressed within the framework provided below:
1. Gateway size is linked to the maximum potential that a channeler will ONE DAY reach. In other words, the maximum size of your gateway is dependent on the maximum strength that you will end up at in the Power.
This rule is absolute, and therefore maximum gateway size is a clear indicator of comparative strength for fully developed channelers (i.e. channelers who have reached their maximum potential in the Power). In this way, Logain is able to absolutely judge Rand’s comparative strength to his own, based on the comparative sizes of their gateways.
2. Maximum gateway size is a PREDICTOR of full potential strength among men. This means that although it is not possible to sense the ultimate potential of a man, gateways are able to predict your maximum potential before you reach it.
Evidence of this is that Rand is able to make his maximum size gateway – 4 paces by 4 – back in FoH. At this point he is not yet at his full potential, however, it seems the same gene or aspect of the soul that determines maximum potential is also responsible for determining maximum gateway size. While this gene is a common denominator between maximum potential and maximum gateway size, you do not have to reach your maximum potential before being able to make your maximum size gateway. Instead, you are able to make your maximum size gateway as soon as you reach a specific percentage of your full potential – maybe 80% or so (based on Rand’s example only).
3. While a channeler is still gaining strength, gateway size is limited by his current potential (up to the point that he reaches the required percentage of his full potential), as well as the amount of Power that he can channel at the time. We have evidence that smaller gateways require less of the Power, and tired channelers make smaller gateways than usual. I refer to Neald or Grady in tGS. However, it seems as if you need to be VERY tired before your gateway size actually starts decreasing.
4. While some channelers have gateway Talents that are more advanced than that of others, this does not affect the SIZE of the gateway. Rather, it affects the amount of Power which that particular channeler has to put into creating a gateway of that size. This comes from the Elayne/Aviendha example where they make the same sized gateway, but Elayne requires much less of the Power to do it than Aviendha.
What we can conclude from the above, is:
For rested, full strength channelers, comparative gateway size is an absolute indicator of comparative strength.
For rested channelers below the maximum gateway threshold (which is unknown but which I am estimating at around 80% of full potential), gateway size is an absolute indicator of current comparative strength.
For rested channelers above the maximum gateway threshold ( 80% in our example) but below their maximum potential, comparative gateway size would not be an indicator of CURRENT comparative strength, but it would be an indicator of comparative maximum POTENTIAL.
In other words, let’s use Narishma and Flinn as examples. Let’s say Narishma is at 80% of his full potential, and Flinn is at 95% of his full potential. Both are above the threshold for maximum gateway size. Flinn may currently be stronger than Narishma, however, because Narishma has a greater maximum potential, his gateways may already be larger than those of Flinn, despite the fact that Flinn is the stronger channeler.
In conclusion, gateway size IS an accurate indicator of comparative strength, except in the last case demonstrated. I would welcome quotes from the books that contradict any part of what I have postulated above. I certainly cannot recall anything contradictory out of hand, but please feel free to challenge my assertions as you see fit.
1. Gateway size is linked to the maximum potential that a channeler will ONE DAY reach. In other words, the maximum size of your gateway is dependent on the maximum strength that you will end up at in the Power.
This rule is absolute, and therefore maximum gateway size is a clear indicator of comparative strength for fully developed channelers (i.e. channelers who have reached their maximum potential in the Power). In this way, Logain is able to absolutely judge Rand’s comparative strength to his own, based on the comparative sizes of their gateways.
2. Maximum gateway size is a PREDICTOR of full potential strength among men. This means that although it is not possible to sense the ultimate potential of a man, gateways are able to predict your maximum potential before you reach it.
Evidence of this is that Rand is able to make his maximum size gateway – 4 paces by 4 – back in FoH. At this point he is not yet at his full potential, however, it seems the same gene or aspect of the soul that determines maximum potential is also responsible for determining maximum gateway size. While this gene is a common denominator between maximum potential and maximum gateway size, you do not have to reach your maximum potential before being able to make your maximum size gateway. Instead, you are able to make your maximum size gateway as soon as you reach a specific percentage of your full potential – maybe 80% or so (based on Rand’s example only).
3. While a channeler is still gaining strength, gateway size is limited by his current potential (up to the point that he reaches the required percentage of his full potential), as well as the amount of Power that he can channel at the time. We have evidence that smaller gateways require less of the Power, and tired channelers make smaller gateways than usual. I refer to Neald or Grady in tGS. However, it seems as if you need to be VERY tired before your gateway size actually starts decreasing.
4. While some channelers have gateway Talents that are more advanced than that of others, this does not affect the SIZE of the gateway. Rather, it affects the amount of Power which that particular channeler has to put into creating a gateway of that size. This comes from the Elayne/Aviendha example where they make the same sized gateway, but Elayne requires much less of the Power to do it than Aviendha.
What we can conclude from the above, is:
For rested, full strength channelers, comparative gateway size is an absolute indicator of comparative strength.
For rested channelers below the maximum gateway threshold (which is unknown but which I am estimating at around 80% of full potential), gateway size is an absolute indicator of current comparative strength.
For rested channelers above the maximum gateway threshold ( 80% in our example) but below their maximum potential, comparative gateway size would not be an indicator of CURRENT comparative strength, but it would be an indicator of comparative maximum POTENTIAL.
In other words, let’s use Narishma and Flinn as examples. Let’s say Narishma is at 80% of his full potential, and Flinn is at 95% of his full potential. Both are above the threshold for maximum gateway size. Flinn may currently be stronger than Narishma, however, because Narishma has a greater maximum potential, his gateways may already be larger than those of Flinn, despite the fact that Flinn is the stronger channeler.
In conclusion, gateway size IS an accurate indicator of comparative strength, except in the last case demonstrated. I would welcome quotes from the books that contradict any part of what I have postulated above. I certainly cannot recall anything contradictory out of hand, but please feel free to challenge my assertions as you see fit.
This message last edited by Shannow on 15/12/2009 at 08:52:04 AM
Gateway size and One Power strength - a theoretical model...
15/12/2009 08:42:26 AM
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There's this....
15/12/2009 09:58:26 AM
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Rand's later quotes confirm, but also refute this. Also, Egwene throws a wrench in things.....
15/12/2009 04:02:33 PM
- 442 Views
Nice points, I wonder...
15/12/2009 12:16:22 PM
- 352 Views
Angreal or sa'angreal do not increase your gateway size...
15/12/2009 12:21:10 PM
- 360 Views
I can't remember Asmo's comment.
15/12/2009 12:23:46 PM
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Light in the Night quotes it above...
15/12/2009 12:27:42 PM
- 296 Views
Unfortunately
15/12/2009 12:37:21 PM
- 326 Views
I'm pretty sure that Rand makes the maximum possible gateway for one person...
15/12/2009 12:41:48 PM
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Re: I'm pretty sure that Rand makes the maximum possible gateway for one person...
15/12/2009 01:44:46 PM
- 408 Views
Well they might
15/12/2009 01:42:24 PM
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How big was Cadsuane's gateway?
15/12/2009 01:43:20 PM
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Re: How big was Cadsuane's gateway?
15/12/2009 02:00:58 PM
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So 8 or 9 feet, I'd say...Edited to add another possibility.
15/12/2009 02:05:48 PM
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Re: So 8 or 9 feet, I'd say...
15/12/2009 02:09:06 PM
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I came up with another possibility after first replying to this issue...
15/12/2009 02:11:41 PM
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Re: I came up with another possibility after first replying to this issue...
15/12/2009 02:16:23 PM
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and in the TGS Siuan uses Vora's sa'angreal
15/12/2009 04:56:34 PM
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I agree w/ you. Siuan and Vora's sa'angreal refutes one of the points in the original post *NM*
15/12/2009 05:08:23 PM
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Another theory
15/12/2009 05:26:45 PM
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Excellent points
15/12/2009 06:08:09 PM
- 320 Views
Yes, pretty much
15/12/2009 01:41:34 PM
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