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Re: I've been saying since wotmania that they are no worse than anyone else. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 19/02/2010 07:37:25 PM

but what wetland society is a paragon of social justice?


No, it's not. My point was that if you have the same two evils, why suddenly pick one, if you already subjected to the other? It's pointless. But that what I'm reading from some of the posters, that somehow Seanchan rule should be accepted because presumably it's better.

Name ONE account of Seanchan abuse in the entire series. Even Suroth is a better ruler than most of the High Lords and in some ways a more tolerant conqueror than Rand.


I would pick as an example of abuse the execution of Mistress of Ships and her husband.

As far as we know:

a) Sea Folks were never declared a war on Seanchan, but rather were attacked by Seanchan, so why executing the leaders of people you attacked? That's injustice to me.
That's a war thing, not a rulership. And how do we know they did NOT rebel after the initial conquest? We don't know the circumstances of their execution, only that the attitudes of the other captives makes their resistance even after capture plausible.

b) Sea Folks were never subjects of Arthur Hawkwings empire and Seanchan can't claim that they betrayed any oaths. Again, why demanding swearing oaths from Sea Folks and then executing when they are disobeying, when Sea Folk were never subjects of the old empire in the first place?
Maybe they don't have a casus belli, but that is a completely different issue. Wetlanders go to war with as little justification.

c) Seanchan executed Mistress just to spread the fear among other Sea Folks, because as far as we know, the others that were resisting the invasion, were not executed, but rather put into slavery. That means the Seanchan "justice" is not equal to all. Who knows what other injustices are there.
No, the higher-ups are held to higher standards of justice. An improvement over the other lands, where rank confers immunities to the law. As I said above, you also know nothing of the circumstances for which they were executed, so you cannot call that particular case an injustice. As you cite, it does seem to be an aberration, making it more likely that it WAS justifiable under their rules. Sorry, but an aberration is logically more likely to prove to not be an abberration than it is to be indicative of a pattern of unseen anomalies.

d) We've seen some sort of accounts of abuse, or rather aftermath of these accounts, when Altarans are running afraid from Deathwatch Guards for example.
A belligerent people known for casual violence, petty murder, and flagrant disregard of law enforcement authorities WOULD be the best barometer of good rule, wouldn't they? 8} They fled because they have guilty consciences! Look at the reputation the city had back in tFoH & LoC - all your example does is argue in support of the Seanchan's virtues as rulers. You don't see property owners and respectable people afraid to mouth off to high-ranking Seanchan officers and official. But no, the frank speech of Mistress Anan & Bethamin's innkeeper to their occupiers is an aberration - it is the fear of troublemakers and street thugs who truly indicate that the Seanchan are to be feared.

Usually people are running afraid from someone, when someone shown violence and abuse in the past. For example, you don't see any other commoner running afraid from any other nobels or solders in other Randland countries. Even Tear, where abuse of commoners was allowed. But we see it in Altara.
We see bullies who are used to having their own way with the police, in a city whose ruler was afraid to send her forces into certain parts of the city, suddenly appalled because they are confronted with a well-run city! And how do you account for the Tinkers flocking to their rule?
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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