Active Users:273 Time:11/05/2024 10:45:09 AM
Re: No it isn't... Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 26/02/2010 06:44:10 PM

No, the point was to keep Rand alive and kicking, and free to fight the Shadow in a future date. Killing Rand wouldn't have led to a different result from letting the Shadow have him.


Yes it would have. And Moiraine has straight out said that she would see them dead rather than let the Shadow have them. Which means either they believe that it will have different repercussions, or that Moiraine is Black Ajah.

But they didn't go to Baerlon to destroy the inn. That was the work of the Shadow.
By your insane logic, anyone can decide their action is worthy only if they had seen all possible outcomes, which is ridiculous.


Completely irrelevant. Intention does not matter in this argument.

For whatever reason, they entered Baerlon, and had to rush out. That in the process, an Inn got burned down is the price they have to pay to keep Rand, Mat and Perrin from the hands of the Shadow. And since the fate of the world depends on that, this sacrifice was a must. And hence it was a price worth paying.


You argument here is that Saving the world justifies burning the inn. The ends justifying the means. Which is the complete opposite of Lan's argument, the means justifying the ends.

What does that even mean? They never chose to be found. They never chose to want to rush away. Circumstances forced these things on them!


But they did choose to go to a city where they could be spotted by Darkfriends. They did choose to stay at the Stag and Lion, knowing that the Shadow was after them and that they might bring devastation there just as they did in Emond's Field. They chose to go anyway.

Stupid straw man again, eh? Tell me this... why is that particular sandwich so important?


Given Lan's argument, the importance of that particular sandwich is determined by the price that has to be paid to obtain it. Because that sandwich cannot be obtained without a war, it is far more valuable than any other.

After all, context matters. Lan talks of sacrifices and prices to be payed with respect to saving the life of the savior of the world. How does a measly sandwich compare?


No, again you're inverting to the far more coherent 'the end justifies the means', and ignoring Lan's actual argument.

Why couldn't he buy it back? Or negotiate for it? Neither of these are options with the Shadow, but the same is not the case between two guys fighting over a sandwich

But that is total nonsense. Why did he have to sacrifice their lives? Why not, as I said, buy the sandwich, or have another sandwich? Till you can show me a scenario where a war over a sandwich is the only option, your arguments will continue to remain total balderdash.


That he cannot obtain that sandwich without war is inherent to the hypothetical. That he cannot have another sandwich is inherent to Lan's idiotic idea, because no other sandwich would have a greater price, therefore no sandwich would be more worth paying the price for.

Lan could find another Dragon Reborn? Or buy him from the Shadow?


No, and neither could the warmonger.

The worthiness of the payment says nothing about Gods. That is an extension of Lan's argument, in a direction I'm fairly certain he would disagree with.


Of course it doesn't. That's because the argument is idiotic, which was my point all along.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
Reply to message
What were your biggest "WTF?" moments? - 24/02/2010 05:17:21 AM 1707 Views
Re: What were your biggest "WTF?" moments? - 24/02/2010 07:29:39 AM 859 Views
I don't think you got what he said... - 24/02/2010 03:03:19 PM 837 Views
Re: I don't think you got what he said... - 24/02/2010 03:38:00 PM 601 Views
Can't agree with that. - 24/02/2010 05:33:01 PM 705 Views
Re: Can't agree with that. - 24/02/2010 06:40:24 PM 615 Views
But in Aviendha's case... - 24/02/2010 08:10:55 PM 554 Views
Re: But in Aviendha's case... - 24/02/2010 09:00:01 PM 512 Views
That's true. *NM* - 24/02/2010 11:51:03 PM 294 Views
So this is the last sandwhich? - 24/02/2010 11:43:37 PM 540 Views
Your argument is irrelevant. - 24/02/2010 11:58:45 PM 624 Views
No it isn't... - 25/02/2010 05:23:58 PM 520 Views
Re: No it isn't... - 25/02/2010 06:27:36 PM 651 Views
Re: No it isn't... - 25/02/2010 07:48:54 PM 500 Views
This debate about Lan's one liner has gone far too long. - 26/02/2010 04:49:45 PM 649 Views
Re: No it isn't... - 26/02/2010 06:44:10 PM 571 Views
Re: No it isn't... - 02/03/2010 06:34:59 PM 604 Views
WTF Moment - 24/02/2010 07:34:52 AM 729 Views
I don't get these - 24/02/2010 03:18:44 PM 970 Views
These were I found surprising/confusing on my first read - 24/02/2010 03:52:12 PM 768 Views
If you think her "Magic Tight Rope Dancing Skills" were confusing - 24/02/2010 04:05:18 PM 828 Views
Indeed. I've learned a bit of juggling too (from same person) - 24/02/2010 04:19:40 PM 645 Views
Thom said he had the fastest hands he had ever seen - 24/02/2010 05:15:05 PM 654 Views
oh, well in that case it's totally plausible - 27/02/2010 12:50:47 PM 606 Views
Another from Mat: - 24/02/2010 05:06:15 PM 653 Views
Actually, this one is not so much - 24/02/2010 06:40:06 PM 722 Views
The most important thing to take away from this is... - 24/02/2010 07:00:18 PM 609 Views
A few: - 24/02/2010 03:27:56 PM 726 Views
Good ones. - 24/02/2010 03:54:37 PM 693 Views
To be fair. - 24/02/2010 05:26:34 PM 791 Views
Re: To be fair. - 24/02/2010 06:52:25 PM 565 Views
Re: What were your biggest "WTF?" moments? - 24/02/2010 03:49:44 PM 721 Views
Re: What were your biggest "WTF?" moments? - 24/02/2010 04:24:45 PM 698 Views
Re: What were your biggest "WTF?" moments? - 24/02/2010 04:34:27 PM 593 Views
Re: What were your biggest "WTF?" moments? - 24/02/2010 05:26:59 PM 570 Views
Re: What were your biggest "WTF?" moments? - 24/02/2010 06:33:50 PM 730 Views
Re: What were your biggest "WTF?" moments? - 24/02/2010 08:35:19 PM 535 Views
Re: What were your biggest "WTF?" moments? - 24/02/2010 08:54:34 PM 702 Views
Hmm... - 27/02/2010 09:55:59 AM 579 Views
realy? - 27/02/2010 12:53:05 PM 526 Views
My WTF - 27/02/2010 11:04:22 AM 576 Views
Good call. - 28/02/2010 07:22:47 AM 511 Views
In hindsight, just about everything from the frist 3 books - 27/02/2010 01:11:25 PM 679 Views

Reply to Message