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Well SilverWarder - 19/04/2004 01:56:41 PM

There's been a sixth-century slate found in Cornwall, reading Artognou, father of a descendant of Coll, has had this built. An Arthur? The Arthur? Many historians feel it can't be so, since otherwise, any mentions of Arthurs are from the 12th century.

Why would that be?

The first recorded Arthurian stories are in the Mabinogian and a few other sources. These were greatly expanded upon later. Arthurianism hit its heyday in the late thirteenth and early 14th Centuries.

The most probably "real" Arthur would be a Dark Ages King after the fall of Rome and the departure of the Legions. Some feel he may have been a Romano Brit, others think he may have been Welsh or Cornish. Either way, he was certainly born in England and his ancestry would likely have been somewhat mixed.

David Drake writes in "The Dragon Lord" that when he was doing research for that book he discovered a generation during which all the Saxons and the Angles attempting to invade Britain came back with bloody noses and their tails between their legs. During that period SOMEONE was kicking butt and taking names and keeping the invaders out. Was this the person who founded the legends of King Arthur? Quite possibly.

The legends are enduring and common enough that there is fair reason to believe that there is some basis for reality. However, Arthurian scholars will tell you that "All that sex? That was the French." Lancelot and Galahad do not appear at all in the original Welsh tales although "Menuw the Magician" (Merlin) does as do Kei (sometimes spelled Cei or Kay), Bedewyr and Gawain. Tristan and Ysolte is also an ancient tale and may, or may not (probably not) have had any commonality with the Arthurian legends. My guess is that it's a separate tale that was bound in for enhanced storytelling.

So - in closing - I do believe there was probably a "real person" providing the kernel of truth the legend is based on. But he'd have been a regular guy trying to keep out the invaders. It seems likely that he held things together enough for Briton to have a brief, one generational, "Golden Age" during which peace prevailed. In the end, of course, this ended with waves of Saxons and Angles and Danes sweeping in to intermingle and absorb the native tribes. By the time of the Norman Conquest England was "Anglo-Saxon" and no trace of Roman influence seems to remain at all save for a few linguistic leftovers in the language. The culture is pretty much solidly invader and little recognizable remains of the old Roman Briton at all.




Silver Warder

Warder to Rebelaessedai

Risk everything - or gain nothing.
Geoffrey de Charney - 1356


Deeds - Not words

Remembering Joe (CrazedWeasel)




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King Arthur: real or not? - 19/04/2004 01:16:21 PM 195 Views
But, I bought a Round Table on Ebay *NM* - 19/04/2004 01:17:51 PM 6 Views
Mine had a sword stuck in it. *NM* - 19/04/2004 10:54:28 PM 4 Views
*counts his money* - 20/04/2004 04:44:29 AM 5 Views
I think there prolly was... - 19/04/2004 01:18:31 PM 18 Views
I doubt it - 19/04/2004 01:26:01 PM 35 Views
That isn't surprising. - 19/04/2004 01:27:36 PM 21 Views
oooh - 19/04/2004 01:29:13 PM 19 Views
Just a tuppence - 19/04/2004 01:32:00 PM 17 Views
*sigh* - 19/04/2004 01:33:34 PM 15 Views
I saw somewhere - 19/04/2004 02:50:44 PM 12 Views
lol - 19/04/2004 03:13:25 PM 10 Views
*looks sheepish* no but i will look for you. - 19/04/2004 03:40:36 PM 7 Views
lol. it isn't very important - 19/04/2004 04:29:23 PM 6 Views
Re: King Arthur: real or not? - 19/04/2004 01:27:47 PM 18 Views
But is that a "King Arthur"? - 19/04/2004 01:31:11 PM 14 Views
well, I dont' think a "historical King Arthur" ever existed - 19/04/2004 02:06:29 PM 8 Views
As far as I know - 19/04/2004 01:37:41 PM 17 Views
Would you like to buy a Round Table? Special price for you my friend - 19/04/2004 03:31:14 PM 10 Views
Only if you throw in Excalibur too - 20/04/2004 11:10:48 AM 12 Views
*ROAR!* - 20/04/2004 07:59:42 PM 8 Views
eek - 21/04/2004 10:05:07 AM 8 Views
Indisputably Real - 19/04/2004 01:55:18 PM 43 Views
Well - 19/04/2004 01:56:41 PM 15 Views
I think there is some historical basis - 19/04/2004 05:18:44 PM 9 Views
Arthur Real but not like in the stories - 19/04/2004 07:42:39 PM 8 Views
nice post - 19/04/2004 09:24:46 PM 11 Views
There probably was a leader between 400 and 700 ad called Artur. - 19/04/2004 09:38:41 PM 15 Views
There were probably several. - 20/04/2004 03:54:48 AM 9 Views
Real! - 19/04/2004 11:11:44 PM 7 Views
Yay! Arthur! - 19/04/2004 11:12:54 PM 5 Views
Yes and no - 20/04/2004 04:47:03 AM 10 Views
Saw a show on the History Channel - 22/04/2004 02:47:47 AM 6 Views
Maybe it was Arthur Dent. - 22/04/2004 04:16:22 PM 6 Views