But see, that's where things start to get referred back to Tolkien.
Tom Send a noteboard - 12/12/2011 04:30:12 AM
The only language creation that has come close to Tolkien in its depth or realism is Klingon for the Star Trek universe. Everything else is poorly executed. And why is language creation even something that people look at? Because of Tolkien. Usually, instead of language creation one sees a nauseating array of bad portmanteau words.
World creation is honestly one of the worst areas of the fantasy genre as a whole, however. It's worse than language creation because so many more people try it, and it always nearly fails. Tolkien used Beowulf and Old English symbols and ideas to fashion a world that had a depth and flavor that has been unparalleled. Science fiction has the benefit of imagining other worlds in addition to our own (rather than instead of), so the reader usually doesn't get bad maps and terrible cultures.
Look at some of the more popular authors and you will see terrible world creation. Jordan's world is awful and makes no sense from a geographic, cultural or historical perspective. Cultural identities and distinctions depend not on natural barriers, innovations, East-West cultural cross-fertilization as opposed to North-South, or the ability to hold onto certain pieces of real estate, and everyone speaks the same language, which bears no correlation whatsoever to its predecessor.
Martin is, if anything, worse. He just dropped down England, increased its size and messed around with its history, replacing Hadrian's Wall with a huge ice wall and the Scots with crazy wild men...er...well, he changed their name at least, and threw in some dragons. Everything else is just terrible - the Free Cities, the whole thing, it all just sounds like he had a bad case of diarrhea when writing the other cultures.
Let's not even waste our time discussing Brooks, Goodkind, Zelazny, the D&D hacks (Salvatore, Weis & Hickman), Moorcock or the other usual suspects. It just goes downhill from where we started.
It's really once someone starts into the formulaic world-building and bad-language-system creating in fantasy that one is really inviting the negative comparisons to Tolkien.
World creation is honestly one of the worst areas of the fantasy genre as a whole, however. It's worse than language creation because so many more people try it, and it always nearly fails. Tolkien used Beowulf and Old English symbols and ideas to fashion a world that had a depth and flavor that has been unparalleled. Science fiction has the benefit of imagining other worlds in addition to our own (rather than instead of), so the reader usually doesn't get bad maps and terrible cultures.
Look at some of the more popular authors and you will see terrible world creation. Jordan's world is awful and makes no sense from a geographic, cultural or historical perspective. Cultural identities and distinctions depend not on natural barriers, innovations, East-West cultural cross-fertilization as opposed to North-South, or the ability to hold onto certain pieces of real estate, and everyone speaks the same language, which bears no correlation whatsoever to its predecessor.
Martin is, if anything, worse. He just dropped down England, increased its size and messed around with its history, replacing Hadrian's Wall with a huge ice wall and the Scots with crazy wild men...er...well, he changed their name at least, and threw in some dragons. Everything else is just terrible - the Free Cities, the whole thing, it all just sounds like he had a bad case of diarrhea when writing the other cultures.
Let's not even waste our time discussing Brooks, Goodkind, Zelazny, the D&D hacks (Salvatore, Weis & Hickman), Moorcock or the other usual suspects. It just goes downhill from where we started.
It's really once someone starts into the formulaic world-building and bad-language-system creating in fantasy that one is really inviting the negative comparisons to Tolkien.
But you might also praise a book for doing certain things well in the spirit of Tolkien, things that are not necessarily derivative. Such as language creation or good world-building, both of which can make for a great setting and story without rehashing the same old shit all over again. All too rare, I will agree.
I had forgotten about the Battleship movie, and now I'm sad that you reminded me.
I had forgotten about the Battleship movie, and now I'm sad that you reminded me.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
Aren't the Tolkien comparisons getting a little...old?
- 09/12/2011 09:51:39 PM
2761 Views
The comparison bothers me, but not because Tolkien isn't relevant.
- 09/12/2011 10:05:22 PM
1634 Views
Only when shit works are being compared to him
- 09/12/2011 10:22:26 PM
1536 Views
Larry,
- 10/12/2011 01:13:18 AM
1551 Views
Snide dismissal that will be passed off as for his own entertainment.
- 10/12/2011 04:55:43 AM
1455 Views
Well-deserved condescension.
- 11/12/2011 03:54:27 AM
1582 Views
You're sure about that?
- 11/12/2011 04:20:26 AM
1811 Views
Re: You're sure about that?
- 11/12/2011 05:25:08 AM
1538 Views
Re: You're sure about that?
- 11/12/2011 06:03:02 AM
1405 Views
i think you shouldn't judge a whole world's school programs on your school
- 11/12/2011 06:42:30 AM
1442 Views
- 11/12/2011 06:42:30 AM
1442 Views
If you're arguing that children should be able to read genre fiction, fine.
- 11/12/2011 08:52:27 PM
1327 Views
Well, I suppose it depends on the type of genre being read
- 11/12/2011 09:36:16 PM
1575 Views
How often do you hear the challenging writers mentioned at this site?
- 12/12/2011 02:03:05 PM
1305 Views
Only when you, me, and a couple others write reviews
- 12/12/2011 04:21:14 PM
1694 Views
Oh, it was the same as it always is
- 12/12/2011 05:23:56 PM
1414 Views
Much of the actual "Classics", that is, Greek and Latin originals, kids would eat up.
- 12/12/2011 03:13:03 AM
1313 Views
You're upfront and honest about it; he isn't. The difference matters to me. *NM*
- 11/12/2011 05:18:42 AM
770 Views
this is a bit off topic, but out of curiousity...
- 11/12/2011 06:28:35 AM
1529 Views
I've discussed this dozens of times at this site. Perhaps you've missed all of the posts.
- 11/12/2011 08:57:44 PM
1467 Views
mk I'll go look. I probably did miss it (or at least don't remember it!)
- 11/12/2011 09:08:02 PM
1431 Views
I have a successful career that was inspired by the video games I played as a child. *NM*
- 11/12/2011 05:52:21 PM
804 Views
Now let's get all the people who just pissed their lives away with video games and see the %.
- 11/12/2011 08:58:42 PM
1564 Views
The majority of players neither waste their lives nor make a career out of it.
- 11/12/2011 11:29:29 PM
1461 Views
Yeah, sorry, I don't think you could say that with a straight face in real life. *NM*
- 12/12/2011 04:13:52 AM
733 Views
Then you have a closed mind on the subject. Ironic, considering your stance on edification. *NM*
- 12/12/2011 05:47:50 AM
672 Views
No, just with respect to you. *NM*
- 12/12/2011 02:00:15 PM
722 Views
Tom, you pulled the "Say that to my face!" line. You lost the right to talk about respect. *NM*
- 12/12/2011 03:20:15 PM
773 Views
Once again, I really don't care what you think. *NM*
- 12/12/2011 03:37:40 PM
729 Views
Did I imply that you did? My apologies. I'd hate to insinuate that you'd stoop that low. *NM*
- 12/12/2011 04:13:25 PM
692 Views
As well read as you seem to be, you think you'd be smart enough...
- 11/12/2011 06:20:06 PM
1408 Views
I thought I have made it clear that I don't care if people don't like me here.
- 11/12/2011 08:44:58 PM
1328 Views
Re: I thought I have made it clear that I don't care if people don't like me here.
- 12/12/2011 04:04:37 PM
1378 Views
That statement has just confused me.
- 12/12/2011 04:06:53 PM
1343 Views
Re: That statement has just confused me.
- 12/12/2011 04:14:27 PM
1349 Views
I never learned Hittite. I had a book on pre-order for a long time but never ended up getting it.
- 12/12/2011 05:41:03 PM
1298 Views
What you have made clear, I think, is the fact that you deal in generalizations and stereotypes.
- 12/12/2011 10:12:12 PM
1450 Views
There's an unintentional irony in what you say, alas
- 13/12/2011 12:44:26 AM
1356 Views
Tom, Dick, or Larry...you may use your true first name, but you're still an anonymous entity to most
- 13/12/2011 04:49:35 AM
1575 Views
With such comeback skills, you must have ruled the playgrounds as a kid, no?
- 13/12/2011 05:21:42 AM
1580 Views
There are no special snowflakes, are there?
- 11/12/2011 09:39:21 PM
1332 Views
- 11/12/2011 09:39:21 PM
1332 Views
There are many way of widening one's horizons and broadening one's mind.
- 11/12/2011 10:08:24 PM
1090 Views
What I don't like-
- 12/12/2011 04:28:55 AM
1446 Views
Why don't you name something, then?
- 12/12/2011 04:40:29 AM
1387 Views
Sure.
- 13/12/2011 07:30:56 AM
1223 Views
Mentioning Ender's Game pretty much shot your argument in the foot.
- 13/12/2011 02:02:59 PM
1338 Views
You dismiss the entire video game medium because many games lack value.
- 13/12/2011 03:59:11 PM
1474 Views
You're like the McDonald's paid advocate trying to say Big Macs are actually healthy.
- 13/12/2011 05:46:37 PM
1285 Views
I'll leave it up to others to define as they wish against their self-conceptions of me 
- 10/12/2011 10:52:54 AM
1433 Views
- 10/12/2011 10:52:54 AM
1433 Views
that's alright. I really have no desire to stroke your twit-ego. *NM*
- 10/12/2011 04:36:56 PM
578 Views
Considering the firestorm I appear to have touched off, that may be best.
- 12/12/2011 12:57:49 PM
1432 Views
I know, John
- 12/12/2011 04:27:04 PM
1323 Views
Re: I know, John
- 12/12/2011 05:06:26 PM
1375 Views
As I've said in the past, I'd be scared if anyone agreed with me anywhere approaching 100%
- 12/12/2011 06:33:52 PM
1317 Views
- 12/12/2011 06:33:52 PM
1317 Views
Re: As I've said in the past, I'd be scared if anyone agreed with me anywhere approaching 100%
- 12/12/2011 07:13:37 PM
1396 Views
- 12/12/2011 07:13:37 PM
1396 Views
Blurbs are not generally very original in their comparisons - would kind of defeat their purpose.
- 09/12/2011 10:42:17 PM
1416 Views
Maybe if so much of the genre weren't crap derivative works it wouldn't be so common. *NM*
- 11/12/2011 03:44:24 AM
701 Views
To be fair, a lot of it isn't.
- 11/12/2011 04:06:07 AM
1356 Views
I suspect that if it really isn't derivative it's not being compared to Tolkien in the first place.
- 11/12/2011 04:18:57 AM
1311 Views
That's true.
- 11/12/2011 11:08:01 AM
1302 Views
But see, that's where things start to get referred back to Tolkien.
- 12/12/2011 04:30:12 AM
1453 Views
The Tolkien fanaticism gets old. And yes, for me it is unreadable.
- 11/12/2011 11:37:53 PM
1365 Views
No, because the movies are very contemporary and relevant, thus he will remain so for quite a while.
- 12/12/2011 03:14:53 AM
1421 Views
Disagree all you want, but LotR is still the touchstone when it comes to works of fantasy.
- 12/12/2011 03:48:20 AM
1329 Views