Active Users:269 Time:25/05/2024 08:23:18 PM
Re: ASOIAF: Hopefully a spoiler-laden thread Cannoli Send a noteboard - 19/04/2013 01:06:19 AM

We know that the three-eyed crow is Aegor 'Bloodraven' Rivers from the Dunk & Egg stories.

We know that Elia and Rhaegar could not have any more children, and Rhaegar needed to find another wife to have a third child to fulfil the PWWP prophecy.

Assuming it came down to him. I still don't believe that justifies his thing with Lyanna.
We know that Brandon Stark was a bit of an arsehole.
Not unless the rape thing below is true, and I didn't see much convincing evidence of that.
We know that Rickon and Osha are on Skagos, and that Davos Seaworth is going to rescue them.
My only question regarding that is, how did they get there? IIRC, they were heading south from Winterfell, while Skagos is to the northeast, AND they'd have had to take a boat, which would have been too much of a trail for people who are lying low. I mean, I agree that it fits with Davos' reaction, it simply doesn't fit what we know of their travels afterwards, much less Wex following and observing where they went and making it back to Winterfell to be found by Glover and/or Manderly.
What do we have a pretty good idea of? It appears that Brandon Stark raped Ashara Dayne, causing her later suicide and death.

I went into this in more detail in a reply to Nighthawk, but I think that's a bit of a stretch from Selmy's offhand comment about "Stark dishonored her". He could have meant Brandon or Ned, and he could have been working from actual knowledge, or simply repeating the widespread story of Ned siring Jon on her. Catelyn heard it in Winterfell, and Cersei cited it to him in King's Landing. Selmy might very well have been operating on that perception, and even if there was some sexual relationship between either Stark and Ashara, Barristan Selmy would not be the first Kingsguard knight from a marcher house to perceive a Dornish woman dishonored by casual sex and the woman herself to have a very different view of it.



This rules out Ashara from being Jon Snow's mother. Whilst Wylla remains an unknown quantity, to me this makes R+L=J all but certain.
After killing her brother Arthur, presumably at the same time he encountered Lyanna on her deathbed, he brought Dawn back to House Dayne. Wylla had some relationship with that family given that she nursed Edric, so she was probably some woman Ned got to nurse Jon, and in exchange for her discretion, she received a place in the Dayne household. Either she was already a retainer who undertook to nurse the baby for a time, or she might have been some camp follower or common woman Ned used to care for Jon after Lyanna died, and she agreed to be known as his mother to protect him, and stayed at Starfall, as mentioned previously. Hell, he could still be Ashara's son, and Wylla covered for her mistress. I lean towards R+L=J myself, but IDK that anything was really clarified there. Note that Martin threw in the little story of Ned siring Jon on a fisherman's daughter near the Sisters as an example of the unreliability of gossip.
It appears likely that Jon is the Prince Who Was Promised. His 'death' was undertaken under a bleeding star (Ser Patrek was being torn apart by a giant with blood pouring on his sigil of a star), amidst salt (Bowen Marsh's tears) and arguably with dragons within stone nearby (Shireen Baratheon is the great-grand-daughter of King Aegon Targaryen and has stoneskin). He fulfils some aspects of the prophecy better than Daenerys, though others not quite as well. More notably, when Melisandre looked into her fires and asked to see the PWWP, she only saw 'snow'.
That was the line that did it for me, too.
It also appears that Melisandre is actually originally from Westeros (and her real name was 'Melli' ), and was taken to Asshai as a child-slave.


The maesters of Westeros don't have much of a clue about the history of the continent. They don't even know if the Andals invaded 2,000 or 6,000 years ago.
Descriptions of the early Andals suggest a distinct lack of civilization, and that the maesters are reconstructing history, rather than having witnessed, recorded and published it.
We also know that the First Men practised human sacrifice to the heart trees, which is not recorded elsewhere. This suggests that the maesters' claims to knowledge are seriously flawed.
Only if they claimed omniscience. If they didn't come over with the Andals, they sure as heck were not around for the First Men. It's not like anyone else is doing a better job at history, aside from maybe the Night's Watch, if their archives were ever organized. The sacrifices to the heart trees suggest they were relatively secret rites or at the least not something they would easily share with outsiders.

The thing about the maesters that interests me the most are the allegations of Barbrey Dustin and how they dovetail with those of Marwyn's clique that has taken in Sam, and is under observation by the Faceless Men. BTW, is anyone else troubled by the fact that as charming as his students in the Citadel appear to be, the other students of Marwyn are both rather sinister figures, Mirri Maz Dur & Qyburn?



Aegon's legitimacy remains in question. He could be what he claims, the son of Rhaegar. He could be an illegitimate descendent of the Blackfyres through the female line who has the Targaryen features. He could be the son of a Lyseni woman with similar features.

The motives of the Others remain unclear.

The hatred of life attributed to them by various parties would seem to do it. Though the logistics and whatnot of their actions remain in question. There was the implication that they were originally humans, some of whom coming from the male babies Craster left out for them in exchange for being spared their attentions.


I assume we can also be pretty sure that Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree, who championed "the little crannogman" presumably Howland Reed?

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Reply to message
ASOIAF: Hopefully a spoiler-laden thread - 16/04/2013 10:52:45 PM 1743 Views
Re: ASOIAF: Hopefully a spoiler-laden thread - 18/04/2013 12:09:11 PM 961 Views
Elaborate on Brandon Stark - 18/04/2013 09:40:17 PM 774 Views
Yes, please do. - 19/04/2013 12:40:05 AM 989 Views
Re: Elaborate on Brandon Stark - 19/04/2013 09:49:37 AM 815 Views
How does that equate to rape? - 19/04/2013 01:54:27 PM 766 Views
Still not buying it. - 22/04/2013 09:09:09 PM 1093 Views
BAM! Consider him rebuffed. Good job - 22/04/2013 10:56:59 PM 1142 Views
Re: ASOIAF: Hopefully a spoiler-laden thread - 19/04/2013 01:06:19 AM 1136 Views
Can we really suspect that? - 19/04/2013 01:44:07 PM 904 Views

Reply to Message