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what he said! especially about Cersei being seriously mentally ill *NM* imlad Send a noteboard - 19/03/2010 04:38:19 AM
Though, of course, none of them are good. With all the others, there is some sort of motivation, something other than the simple desire to kill those that wronged her. Arya's sole goal in life is the extermination of a well-determined list of people that have commited offense upon her in her life. I do not see how this is good in any way or sense. And her shortness and likeablity are not at all justification for her sins. She has taken steps to accomplish her evil goal through evil means. Consorting with assasins and later joining a guild of them so she can become one herself. The people on her list have wronged her, but many of them have not done it in such a life threatening way that their deaths can be justified.

Robert Baratheon is certainly presented as "good" in the first book. He is likeable and friendly, if he has changed from the man he was, we get many favorable POV scenes from Ned's perspective. However, when you look closer at his actions, he is a very bad man, if not as evil as Arya or Cersei. He led a revolution against the annointed King for a stolen love. Though many houses supported him not because of love but because of the weakness of the Targaryens, and because the Mad King was truly a threat to the realm and it would better many people's lives to have him gone, Robert's sole motivation in leading a rebellion was that his betrothed fell in love with another man. Seems like an awful reason to kill so many to me. And then, years later, he demands sending assasins to do away with the last remaining Targaryens. A pregnent 14 year old girl. Though it is possible that he desired this for the purposes of eliminating rallying points for future rebellion, it is fairly clear from what we know about him that he is doing it for his personal hatred of the family. This puts him up there with Madame Defarge for EVILNESS.

I am not defending Cersei when I say that she is less evil than Arya and Theon. Whether or not you call it POV trap, she has some justification for her actions. She, like Cat Stark, does everything she does for her children. However, unlike Cat Stark, she has ambition far above what would be accepted for a woman in this world and a desire to promote some convuluted form of gender equality by getting herself power. Of course, her methods are definitely evil, but she views this as only doing what she has to do to protect her children and her house. However, as of AFFC when we finally get her point of view, I am of the opinion that she is really mentally ill at this point, so she is not responsible for her actions and cannot be classed as evil.

Theon is a bad dude.

Jaime isn't.

If you need explanation, I posted it on the quickpoll a while ago.......
Death to the Regressives of the GOP and the TeaParty. No mercy for Conservatives. Burn them all at the stake for the hateful satanists they are.
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ASoI&F Quickpoll: Evil characters - 18/03/2010 02:04:24 PM 1451 Views
Re: ASoI&F Quickpoll: Evil characters - 18/03/2010 02:32:48 PM 899 Views
Re: ASoI&F Quickpoll: Evil characters - 18/03/2010 06:34:29 PM 831 Views
Exactly. - 18/03/2010 09:07:56 PM 896 Views
I have never heard anyone defend Cersei. - 18/03/2010 07:04:33 PM 892 Views
Confusing likability with goodness - 18/03/2010 08:59:40 PM 892 Views
Arya may not be "good"... - 18/03/2010 09:15:46 PM 944 Views
Do you think a child can be evil? *NM* - 18/03/2010 09:18:06 PM 383 Views
We sometimes hear about kids doing horrible things - 18/03/2010 09:41:30 PM 779 Views
Is that because they may not understand the consequences of their actions? - 18/03/2010 09:45:33 PM 855 Views
Most likely, yes. Plus their reasons for doing bad things lack deeper inferior motives. - 18/03/2010 10:09:25 PM 885 Views
Arya is old enough to understand cause and effect... - 18/03/2010 11:04:31 PM 987 Views
Soldiers do the same thing. - 19/03/2010 03:23:35 AM 810 Views
Just what I was about to say, yeah *NM* - 19/03/2010 07:55:47 AM 351 Views
Arya is legitimately the most evil... - 18/03/2010 09:45:04 PM 1172 Views
No, she's not - 18/03/2010 11:45:23 PM 825 Views
Cersei doesn't have true justification - 18/03/2010 11:47:44 PM 959 Views
what makes ambition better? - 19/03/2010 03:30:04 AM 803 Views
*nods* - 19/03/2010 07:58:31 AM 926 Views
what he said! especially about Cersei being seriously mentally ill *NM* - 19/03/2010 04:38:19 AM 315 Views
Re: Arya is legitimately the most evil... - 19/03/2010 10:50:56 PM 824 Views
I was looking forward to his response as well. - 19/03/2010 11:13:35 PM 947 Views
Nope - 20/03/2010 10:23:19 PM 994 Views
Evil is such a limiting term to use. - 20/03/2010 12:18:24 PM 799 Views
Try reading the books - 20/03/2010 10:50:01 PM 1003 Views
just out of curiousity - 21/03/2010 03:01:02 AM 887 Views
Sort of. - 22/03/2010 11:37:04 PM 801 Views
I've read them a few times. - 21/03/2010 01:47:52 PM 888 Views
Just a "few" times? - 21/03/2010 06:07:14 PM 932 Views
Only three times. - 21/03/2010 11:20:12 PM 841 Views
Who is Jon Connington? - 22/03/2010 01:30:44 AM 988 Views
people seem to be forgetting - 21/03/2010 09:11:04 PM 949 Views
Some of that is BS... - 22/03/2010 04:18:06 AM 871 Views
Thank you. - 23/03/2010 01:59:38 AM 869 Views
*NM* - 23/03/2010 03:58:24 AM 305 Views
ROFLMAO. Most people complain that my values are medieval & out of touch with the modern world! - 23/03/2010 01:54:58 AM 1228 Views
It really shocks that I'm going to say this. - 23/03/2010 03:23:28 AM 802 Views
To clarify, "evil" means VERY, VERY BAD. - 23/03/2010 01:12:39 AM 1049 Views
your problem is you seem equate legality with morality - 24/03/2010 04:07:42 AM 793 Views
I was responding to someone ELSE making that error - 24/03/2010 03:13:36 PM 1068 Views

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