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Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM
I live in an apartment, It was the first thing I though of. :)

Yes, I am aware that Herbert was extremely interested in ecology and environmental issues. He spent alot of time learning what a desert is, what causes it, and how to alter it.

Perhaps I misunderstood your point, or framed my disagreement in the wrong way. I percieved you to be appraoching it in what I can best characterize... argh my brain isn't working well today and I know I am going to phrase it badly... change tracks..

The point I am and was trying to make is that Dune is not an environmentalist book as we define the term (conotatively, not denotatively) today, ie the Al Gore, tree-hugger, "we must all preserve the planet and minimize our carbon footprint" BS. The environmental issues of Dune is all about changing the natural state of the planet into something else we would prefer. The complete opposite of what "environmental" means in our current society.

Through his research Herbert was able to craft a rich detailed world for his story to occur in. The very richness of it allows us to see how it impacts and changes the paths of the characters. Other characters are forged in different environments. Once you get past the "environmental" surface though you discover that the environment is not really a message or theme of the book(s), it is the story the humans.

The "theme" is how the different environments forced them to become different from one another. How their forging makes what they do "right" in their eyes, and how all those verious perceptions conflict with one another without any black and white or moral absolutes. How in fact every person is really just a shade of moral grey. Though the novel is titled DUNE, it isn't about the planet, it is about the people. Thast is what makes the novel historically significant. That is what Herbert did that changed the Science Fiction genre.

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Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within) - 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM 1939 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM 1054 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM 1245 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM 1172 Views
I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM 1173 Views
Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM 1223 Views
Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM 1032 Views
Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM 1062 Views
That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM 929 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 06:33:14 PM 902 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 29/04/2010 11:38:26 PM 894 Views
Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme - 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM 1027 Views
A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM 957 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM 939 Views
Good points - 22/04/2010 09:19:45 PM 978 Views
Re: Good points - 22/04/2010 10:55:21 PM 924 Views
when you call it human ecology I come much closer to agreeing - 22/04/2010 02:16:58 PM 954 Views
Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM 1053 Views
Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM 916 Views
You're not using "archaic" correctly - 20/04/2010 10:07:31 PM 919 Views
Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM 808 Views
doesn't that regulate the point down to interesting trivia? - 21/04/2010 02:36:38 PM 959 Views
Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM 1035 Views
Funny the things people focus on - 21/04/2010 11:24:59 PM 930 Views
Re: Funny the things people focus on - 23/04/2010 05:28:54 PM 934 Views
People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book - 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM 1416 Views
Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM* - 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM 461 Views
I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune - 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM 1117 Views
Ecology goes more than one way - 17/04/2010 12:12:45 AM 1069 Views
There are several points to the book/series - 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM 1138 Views
Everyone get something different from a book - 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM 1323 Views
I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series - 20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM 1078 Views
I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts - 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM 1266 Views
I hope you got to Darwi Odrade - 21/04/2010 03:44:27 PM 956 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM 1522 Views
I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM 1319 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM 1273 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM 1201 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM 956 Views
I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM* - 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM 404 Views
And Dune Messiah as well was serialized at first, in Galaxy *NM* - 22/04/2010 09:31:54 PM 409 Views
Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM 1174 Views
Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM 909 Views
I didn't see that in Alia - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM 854 Views
One of my favorite series! - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM 856 Views
I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM 777 Views
Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM 898 Views
His style doesn't appeal to me as much, unfortunately - 22/04/2010 09:17:21 PM 782 Views
You might want to track down his short stories one day... - 23/04/2010 02:06:09 PM 1011 Views
Children of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 22/04/2010 06:47:04 AM 976 Views
See...I think I made a mistake in my reading of Dune - 22/04/2010 07:26:28 AM 956 Views
Depends - 22/04/2010 08:01:39 AM 861 Views
Re: Depends - 22/04/2010 11:12:15 PM 1125 Views
read something else - 23/04/2010 07:49:34 PM 849 Views
LA Times article on Dune (4/18/2010) - 23/04/2010 10:59:00 AM 807 Views
God Emperor of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 25/04/2010 02:03:37 AM 1076 Views
Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM 818 Views
Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM 894 Views
I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 29/04/2010 09:44:07 PM 855 Views
Re: I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 10/05/2010 04:10:49 AM 1198 Views
Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 30/04/2010 02:31:10 PM 1006 Views
Re: Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 10/05/2010 01:24:33 AM 1046 Views

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