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Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM
I live in an apartment, It was the first thing I though of. :)

Yes, I am aware that Herbert was extremely interested in ecology and environmental issues. He spent alot of time learning what a desert is, what causes it, and how to alter it.

Perhaps I misunderstood your point, or framed my disagreement in the wrong way. I percieved you to be appraoching it in what I can best characterize... argh my brain isn't working well today and I know I am going to phrase it badly... change tracks..

The point I am and was trying to make is that Dune is not an environmentalist book as we define the term (conotatively, not denotatively) today, ie the Al Gore, tree-hugger, "we must all preserve the planet and minimize our carbon footprint" BS. The environmental issues of Dune is all about changing the natural state of the planet into something else we would prefer. The complete opposite of what "environmental" means in our current society.

Through his research Herbert was able to craft a rich detailed world for his story to occur in. The very richness of it allows us to see how it impacts and changes the paths of the characters. Other characters are forged in different environments. Once you get past the "environmental" surface though you discover that the environment is not really a message or theme of the book(s), it is the story the humans.

The "theme" is how the different environments forced them to become different from one another. How their forging makes what they do "right" in their eyes, and how all those verious perceptions conflict with one another without any black and white or moral absolutes. How in fact every person is really just a shade of moral grey. Though the novel is titled DUNE, it isn't about the planet, it is about the people. Thast is what makes the novel historically significant. That is what Herbert did that changed the Science Fiction genre.

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Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within) - 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM 2064 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM 1165 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM 1367 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM 1291 Views
I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM 1290 Views
Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM 1344 Views
Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM 1146 Views
Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM 1206 Views
That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM 1065 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 06:33:14 PM 1021 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 29/04/2010 11:38:26 PM 1004 Views
Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme - 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM 1152 Views
A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM 1082 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM 1054 Views
Good points - 22/04/2010 09:19:45 PM 1113 Views
Re: Good points - 22/04/2010 10:55:21 PM 1055 Views
when you call it human ecology I come much closer to agreeing - 22/04/2010 02:16:58 PM 1063 Views
Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM 1167 Views
Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM 1040 Views
You're not using "archaic" correctly - 20/04/2010 10:07:31 PM 1027 Views
Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM 939 Views
doesn't that regulate the point down to interesting trivia? - 21/04/2010 02:36:38 PM 1086 Views
Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM 1178 Views
Funny the things people focus on - 21/04/2010 11:24:59 PM 1049 Views
Re: Funny the things people focus on - 23/04/2010 05:28:54 PM 1046 Views
People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book - 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM 1553 Views
Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM* - 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM 517 Views
I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune - 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM 1234 Views
Ecology goes more than one way - 17/04/2010 12:12:45 AM 1175 Views
There are several points to the book/series - 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM 1265 Views
Everyone get something different from a book - 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM 1440 Views
I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series - 20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM 1192 Views
I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts - 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM 1367 Views
I hope you got to Darwi Odrade - 21/04/2010 03:44:27 PM 1073 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM 1649 Views
I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM 1451 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM 1407 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM 1311 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM 1073 Views
I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM* - 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM 463 Views
And Dune Messiah as well was serialized at first, in Galaxy *NM* - 22/04/2010 09:31:54 PM 469 Views
Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM 1424 Views
Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM 1057 Views
I didn't see that in Alia - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM 988 Views
One of my favorite series! - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM 984 Views
I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM 905 Views
Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM 1018 Views
His style doesn't appeal to me as much, unfortunately - 22/04/2010 09:17:21 PM 938 Views
You might want to track down his short stories one day... - 23/04/2010 02:06:09 PM 1129 Views
Children of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 22/04/2010 06:47:04 AM 1110 Views
See...I think I made a mistake in my reading of Dune - 22/04/2010 07:26:28 AM 1084 Views
Depends - 22/04/2010 08:01:39 AM 985 Views
Re: Depends - 22/04/2010 11:12:15 PM 1363 Views
read something else - 23/04/2010 07:49:34 PM 976 Views
LA Times article on Dune (4/18/2010) - 23/04/2010 10:59:00 AM 926 Views
God Emperor of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 25/04/2010 02:03:37 AM 1227 Views
Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM 955 Views
Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM 1037 Views
I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 29/04/2010 09:44:07 PM 971 Views
Re: I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 10/05/2010 04:10:49 AM 1339 Views
Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 30/04/2010 02:31:10 PM 1143 Views
Re: Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 10/05/2010 01:24:33 AM 1184 Views

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