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It is interesting to see how it contrasts with your take on it, being from a country with them snoopcester Send a noteboard - 26/04/2010 02:11:18 PM
is how many comments like this one there are, focusing on the ID part. In Belgium, and surely in other countries that have ID cards, it is indeed in principle compulsory to have said ID card with you. Obviously agents won't randomly stop you on the street and demand to see it, but if you get into any kind of situation where you'd need it - like traffic violations - and you don't have it, I seem to recall there's a fine for that. Not that being illegal has much to do with that, or that illegal people in such a situation would get in much more trouble than citizens, but like I said, it surprises me how much people are complaining about the "oh no, you have to carry ID!" part, as if that's something heinous by itself. And that that gets more attention than, say, the ridiculous thing about allowing citizens to sue their local authorities for not cracking down hard enough on illegals.


I think there are two elements to it for me -
Firstly, it seems to be effectivly making it compulsory for hispanic looking people to carry ID cards, which is disturbing because though it in theory covers everyone it seems very likely that hispanics are going to be stopped more often by police and if they don't carry ID, they're going to waste a lot of time in police cells.

Secondly, it always feels to me like it is working from a position of proved guilt rather than innocence - I don't like the idea of someone having to carry something with them at all times in public to prove they're not illegally there. The presumption should be that they are legally there unless the police has a valid reason to assume they aren't. I'm also against the idea that the law will dictate what I have to take with me when I go out in public - it should be my choice if I decide to go out with nothing in my pockets (Okay, I'm willing to accept that there must be public decency standards because that has a clear impact on others)
*MySmiley*

Robert Graves "There is no money in poetry, but then there is no poetry in money, either."

Henning Mankell "We must defend the open society, because if we start locking our doors, if we let fear decide, the person who committed the act of terror will win"
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The Arizona immigration bill thingy BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 12:57:20 AM 2218 Views
what do you expect from one of the last states to accept MLK day? Aisha - 26/04/2010 01:19:03 AM 1298 Views
Yes, well, at least you are in the 27% of Americans that have a Passport. BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 01:48:44 AM 1104 Views
Such a wrongheaded law. LiterateDog - 26/04/2010 02:25:10 AM 1004 Views
A lot of stuff makes me go "whuh?" legally. Ghavrel - 26/04/2010 03:38:12 AM 883 Views
Sounds like apartheid in SA... Napoleon62 - 26/04/2010 02:36:52 AM 1054 Views
As bad as the law is, that's an ignorant statement. *NM* LiterateDog - 26/04/2010 02:38:16 AM 500 Views
Re: Sounds like apartheid in SA... BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 05:13:17 AM 1161 Views
It shows that Arizona is already lost Roland00 - 26/04/2010 03:09:24 AM 1046 Views
It will only take a few times getting their asses sued off for detaining U.S. citizens against... everynametaken - 26/04/2010 05:54:49 AM 1087 Views
Yeah, I can't wait 'til a Latino state representative is arrested for looking illegal. Ghavrel - 26/04/2010 07:26:13 AM 985 Views
or even better, a celebrity. I choose Antonia Banderas (when he has the funky beard hobo look) *NM* Aisha - 26/04/2010 12:32:18 PM 549 Views
Looks like no one knows how bad it is along the border Dark Knight - 26/04/2010 06:19:24 AM 990 Views
Oh please! The immigration and drug problems don't justify bad legislation. everynametaken - 26/04/2010 07:02:54 AM 1009 Views
I do. Brian - 26/04/2010 07:11:10 AM 1177 Views
Re: I do. everynametaken - 26/04/2010 07:45:21 AM 1010 Views
Yeah, I saw an interview with a former U.S. Drug Czar Brian - 26/04/2010 06:35:10 PM 985 Views
Okay, I grew up in Arizona. LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 12:41:21 PM 1198 Views
Re: Looks like no one knows how bad it is along the border BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 03:58:37 PM 1073 Views
looks like somebody doesn't quite get the point moondog - 29/04/2010 06:18:58 AM 1653 Views
Some thoughts Amys - 26/04/2010 06:42:02 AM 1115 Views
I wouldn't worry to much laws like that random thoughts - 26/04/2010 03:03:16 PM 984 Views
patriot act gives that to any federal law enforcement officer moondog - 29/04/2010 06:13:38 AM 1085 Views
Re: Some thoughts BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 04:04:55 PM 979 Views
It's not just outrageous; it's plain stupid. The latter is almost as offensive as the former. Ghavrel - 26/04/2010 07:30:30 AM 1010 Views
Sounds more like a bill to convince people they are doing something than to do something snoopcester - 26/04/2010 12:43:19 PM 984 Views
What I find interesting about all this... Legolas - 26/04/2010 01:06:08 PM 1092 Views
well you see, that IS part of the problem LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 01:13:19 PM 1079 Views
It is interesting to see how it contrasts with your take on it, being from a country with them snoopcester - 26/04/2010 02:11:18 PM 1051 Views
Re: What I find interesting about all this... BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 03:52:09 PM 1044 Views
Perhaps I'm wrong, but... Elaine - 26/04/2010 01:49:13 PM 975 Views
I don't know about the green cards LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 03:05:49 PM 1002 Views
That last point doesn't really make any sense. Legolas - 26/04/2010 03:20:19 PM 1000 Views
my point was that the punishments for the similar crimes are so different. LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 04:23:08 PM 944 Views
Hey, I think it's an appalling law. Elaine - 27/04/2010 02:24:30 PM 1088 Views
Re: Perhaps I'm wrong, but... BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 03:41:47 PM 916 Views
The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass random thoughts - 26/04/2010 02:59:11 PM 1058 Views
The law will most likely not be overturned. LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 03:13:24 PM 985 Views
I meant by the courts random thoughts - 27/04/2010 03:49:11 PM 889 Views
ah well. that'd be nice, then. *NM* LadyLorraine - 27/04/2010 05:14:31 PM 460 Views
The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass *NM* Aisha - 26/04/2010 03:20:45 PM 513 Views
The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass *NM* beckstcw - 26/04/2010 06:53:32 PM 441 Views
The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass *NM* everynametaken - 26/04/2010 08:33:04 PM 476 Views
The federal government will be collective ass but it may help to get the law off their overturned *NM* beckstcw - 27/04/2010 05:33:42 AM 469 Views
Their collective ass will be overturned but it may help to get the law off the federal government *NM* BlackAdder - 27/04/2010 09:18:02 AM 445 Views
It's interesting how this sort of mirrors the Belgian issues. Legolas - 26/04/2010 03:34:59 PM 979 Views
the "overrunning" of culture and language is exaggerated, imo LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 04:34:56 PM 999 Views
I think the primary problem - in both cases - is language, yes. Legolas - 26/04/2010 04:54:55 PM 1020 Views
*shrug* I don't know. I just think that people are way too uptight about the issue LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 05:02:30 PM 947 Views
I agree with you Brian - 26/04/2010 05:26:47 PM 969 Views
that is also true LadyLorraine - 26/04/2010 05:44:40 PM 918 Views
There is a difference between assimilating and being assimilated random thoughts - 27/04/2010 04:09:19 PM 986 Views
the differences really are not that minor random thoughts - 28/04/2010 06:49:33 PM 1030 Views
hmm, see LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 07:10:42 PM 902 Views
I am from San Antonio I have always been able to buy burritos from my neighbors random thoughts - 28/04/2010 08:28:45 PM 921 Views
mmmm Tamale. LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 08:53:13 PM 957 Views
When I say relatively minor, it's because I'm thinking of those *other* assimilation problems here Legolas - 28/04/2010 10:30:04 PM 1211 Views
It should rattle anyone who lives in a democracy and who likes their way of life random thoughts - 28/04/2010 11:15:18 PM 1068 Views
a minor point.... moondog - 29/04/2010 06:30:22 AM 1013 Views
More power to the government! and We took that land fair and square! *NM* heartbreak - 26/04/2010 04:43:15 PM 415 Views
I'm going to take a common sense approach on this for a minute Isaac - 26/04/2010 09:05:21 PM 1212 Views
Re: I'm going to take a common sense approach on this for a minute BlackAdder - 26/04/2010 11:48:14 PM 1341 Views
you are correct moondog - 29/04/2010 06:39:29 AM 1360 Views
Uhm, how is that "worst" case scenario? LadyLorraine - 27/04/2010 01:28:28 PM 975 Views
Worst reasonable case scenario Isaac - 28/04/2010 06:48:29 PM 941 Views
Will the will of the people of Arizona be respected? dart_board - 27/04/2010 12:12:46 AM 1103 Views
That's funny... LadyLorraine - 27/04/2010 01:57:14 AM 1302 Views
echo chamber much? random thoughts - 27/04/2010 04:14:53 PM 1059 Views
there's also 53% of us who think this will lead to violating civil rights. LadyLorraine - 27/04/2010 05:19:29 PM 913 Views
Re: there's also 53% of us who think this will lead to violating civil rights. dart_board - 28/04/2010 12:40:42 PM 973 Views
Those incidents are horrible LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 01:07:39 PM 953 Views
Re: That's funny... dart_board - 28/04/2010 12:30:41 PM 997 Views
And this law will not give them what they want LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 01:12:50 PM 999 Views
Also, the potential economic consequences of the law could be severe for Arizona. Libby - 27/04/2010 01:03:54 AM 1027 Views
now that's just crazy talk. LadyLorraine - 27/04/2010 01:58:42 AM 938 Views
activist group liberal group claims it will cost money, what a shocker *NM* random thoughts - 27/04/2010 04:23:11 PM 422 Views
It will cost money Libby - 27/04/2010 09:16:31 PM 986 Views
but all of that ignores the long term savings random thoughts - 28/04/2010 03:24:50 PM 926 Views
it's less a matter of american tourism LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 04:06:50 PM 979 Views
if they law is enforced it will decrease the number of illegals who go to Arizona random thoughts - 28/04/2010 06:35:26 PM 1038 Views
I will admit LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 07:01:55 PM 960 Views
there have always been bad cops and there always will be random thoughts - 28/04/2010 08:53:50 PM 917 Views
I don't see any real long term savings coming from this. Libby - 28/04/2010 10:17:26 PM 1039 Views
70% of the people in Arizona support the new law and 30% of the state is Hispanic random thoughts - 28/04/2010 10:51:08 PM 1180 Views
real science? LadyLorraine - 28/04/2010 11:06:13 PM 967 Views
I linked to it further up the thread and you responded random thoughts - 28/04/2010 11:19:51 PM 949 Views
ah, I think I missed it for some reason LadyLorraine - 29/04/2010 12:18:13 AM 1013 Views
who has time to read all of this crap *NM* random thoughts - 29/04/2010 04:26:11 AM 407 Views
I'm familiar with the Rasmussen poll Libby - 28/04/2010 11:31:30 PM 1273 Views
Here's Judge Napolitano's response to this AgentOrange - 27/04/2010 02:19:49 PM 962 Views
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