Active Users:905 Time:16/10/2025 06:48:54 AM
you are correct moondog Send a noteboard - 29/04/2010 06:39:29 AM
The “reasonable suspicion” requirement is still there (see yesterday’s post for more on that) but this version specifies that there have to be independent grounds for suspicion beyond race. Also new is the list of documents that someone can present to create a presumption that they’re here legally, although it’s unclear to me how that’ll work in practice. If you’re pulled over on suspicion of being illegal for whatever reason and you produce an Arizona driver’s license, does the cop then let you go (probably, in most cases) or does he get to hold you while he tries to come up with further evidence to overcome the presumption? Another open question — and this is the key for civil libertarians — is whether “reasonable suspicion” can be formed simply by virtue of the fact that the suspect isn’t carrying one of the ID types listed. If so, then cops could theoretically start pulling people aside on the sidewalk and hauling them in if they don’t produce their “papers.” I don’t read this section that way; it sounds like “reasonable suspicion” must exist before any “reasonable attempt” to verify the suspect’s immigration status is made. But if I’m misreading it and “reasonable suspicion” is satisfied if the suspect is guilty of nothing more than being Latino and forgetting his driver’s license at home, then they’re going to have a Category Five legal and political clusterfark on their hands when the first American citizens of Hispanic descent are mistakenly arrested.

I'm glad that local driver licenses are at least accepted. But aren't there some states that will issue DL's to illegal aliens? I wonder if they will keep a list of which state DL's are OK and which are not.


i'm pretty sure in any state you can get a driver's license as long as you pass the written and driving test. they do not check your citizenship status when you apply for a driver's license because it's not the state's responsibility to check whether or not you are legally in the country. and DMVs in the US allow a translator to help the test taker read the questions as long as the translator doesn't actually help them take the test. i have family members who were all able to drive many years before they became citizens of the country, although they were all here legally from the start. but the point is, they were never challenged to prove they were legal aliens or not, they just had to pay the fees and take the tests.
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
Reply to message
The Arizona immigration bill thingy - 26/04/2010 12:57:20 AM 2188 Views
what do you expect from one of the last states to accept MLK day? - 26/04/2010 01:19:03 AM 1278 Views
Yes, well, at least you are in the 27% of Americans that have a Passport. - 26/04/2010 01:48:44 AM 1085 Views
Such a wrongheaded law. - 26/04/2010 02:25:10 AM 989 Views
A lot of stuff makes me go "whuh?" legally. - 26/04/2010 03:38:12 AM 865 Views
Sounds like apartheid in SA... - 26/04/2010 02:36:52 AM 1031 Views
As bad as the law is, that's an ignorant statement. *NM* - 26/04/2010 02:38:16 AM 487 Views
Re: Sounds like apartheid in SA... - 26/04/2010 05:13:17 AM 1144 Views
It shows that Arizona is already lost - 26/04/2010 03:09:24 AM 1030 Views
Looks like no one knows how bad it is along the border - 26/04/2010 06:19:24 AM 974 Views
Oh please! The immigration and drug problems don't justify bad legislation. - 26/04/2010 07:02:54 AM 994 Views
I do. - 26/04/2010 07:11:10 AM 1162 Views
Re: I do. - 26/04/2010 07:45:21 AM 993 Views
Yeah, I saw an interview with a former U.S. Drug Czar - 26/04/2010 06:35:10 PM 965 Views
Okay, I grew up in Arizona. - 26/04/2010 12:41:21 PM 1181 Views
Re: Looks like no one knows how bad it is along the border - 26/04/2010 03:58:37 PM 1056 Views
looks like somebody doesn't quite get the point - 29/04/2010 06:18:58 AM 1632 Views
Some thoughts - 26/04/2010 06:42:02 AM 1100 Views
I wouldn't worry to much laws like that - 26/04/2010 03:03:16 PM 973 Views
patriot act gives that to any federal law enforcement officer - 29/04/2010 06:13:38 AM 1076 Views
Re: Some thoughts - 26/04/2010 04:04:55 PM 964 Views
Sounds more like a bill to convince people they are doing something than to do something - 26/04/2010 12:43:19 PM 965 Views
What I find interesting about all this... - 26/04/2010 01:06:08 PM 1078 Views
well you see, that IS part of the problem - 26/04/2010 01:13:19 PM 1063 Views
Re: What I find interesting about all this... - 26/04/2010 03:52:09 PM 1013 Views
Perhaps I'm wrong, but... - 26/04/2010 01:49:13 PM 960 Views
I don't know about the green cards - 26/04/2010 03:05:49 PM 989 Views
That last point doesn't really make any sense. - 26/04/2010 03:20:19 PM 985 Views
my point was that the punishments for the similar crimes are so different. - 26/04/2010 04:23:08 PM 927 Views
Hey, I think it's an appalling law. - 27/04/2010 02:24:30 PM 1074 Views
Re: Perhaps I'm wrong, but... - 26/04/2010 03:41:47 PM 903 Views
The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass - 26/04/2010 02:59:11 PM 1041 Views
The law will most likely not be overturned. - 26/04/2010 03:13:24 PM 971 Views
I meant by the courts - 27/04/2010 03:49:11 PM 875 Views
ah well. that'd be nice, then. *NM* - 27/04/2010 05:14:31 PM 455 Views
It's interesting how this sort of mirrors the Belgian issues. - 26/04/2010 03:34:59 PM 964 Views
the "overrunning" of culture and language is exaggerated, imo - 26/04/2010 04:34:56 PM 987 Views
I think the primary problem - in both cases - is language, yes. - 26/04/2010 04:54:55 PM 1004 Views
*shrug* I don't know. I just think that people are way too uptight about the issue - 26/04/2010 05:02:30 PM 932 Views
I agree with you - 26/04/2010 05:26:47 PM 955 Views
that is also true - 26/04/2010 05:44:40 PM 901 Views
There is a difference between assimilating and being assimilated - 27/04/2010 04:09:19 PM 973 Views
the differences really are not that minor - 28/04/2010 06:49:33 PM 999 Views
hmm, see - 28/04/2010 07:10:42 PM 887 Views
I am from San Antonio I have always been able to buy burritos from my neighbors - 28/04/2010 08:28:45 PM 906 Views
mmmm Tamale. - 28/04/2010 08:53:13 PM 938 Views
a minor point.... - 29/04/2010 06:30:22 AM 1004 Views
I'm going to take a common sense approach on this for a minute - 26/04/2010 09:05:21 PM 1196 Views
Re: I'm going to take a common sense approach on this for a minute - 26/04/2010 11:48:14 PM 1313 Views
you are correct - 29/04/2010 06:39:29 AM 1341 Views
Uhm, how is that "worst" case scenario? - 27/04/2010 01:28:28 PM 962 Views
Worst reasonable case scenario - 28/04/2010 06:48:29 PM 915 Views
Will the will of the people of Arizona be respected? - 27/04/2010 12:12:46 AM 1080 Views
That's funny... - 27/04/2010 01:57:14 AM 1277 Views
echo chamber much? - 27/04/2010 04:14:53 PM 1045 Views
there's also 53% of us who think this will lead to violating civil rights. - 27/04/2010 05:19:29 PM 899 Views
Re: there's also 53% of us who think this will lead to violating civil rights. - 28/04/2010 12:40:42 PM 958 Views
Those incidents are horrible - 28/04/2010 01:07:39 PM 936 Views
Re: That's funny... - 28/04/2010 12:30:41 PM 978 Views
And this law will not give them what they want - 28/04/2010 01:12:50 PM 980 Views
Also, the potential economic consequences of the law could be severe for Arizona. - 27/04/2010 01:03:54 AM 1012 Views
now that's just crazy talk. - 27/04/2010 01:58:42 AM 923 Views
activist group liberal group claims it will cost money, what a shocker *NM* - 27/04/2010 04:23:11 PM 416 Views
It will cost money - 27/04/2010 09:16:31 PM 975 Views
but all of that ignores the long term savings - 28/04/2010 03:24:50 PM 914 Views
it's less a matter of american tourism - 28/04/2010 04:06:50 PM 960 Views
if they law is enforced it will decrease the number of illegals who go to Arizona - 28/04/2010 06:35:26 PM 1020 Views
I will admit - 28/04/2010 07:01:55 PM 944 Views
there have always been bad cops and there always will be - 28/04/2010 08:53:50 PM 901 Views
I don't see any real long term savings coming from this. - 28/04/2010 10:17:26 PM 1014 Views
70% of the people in Arizona support the new law and 30% of the state is Hispanic - 28/04/2010 10:51:08 PM 1165 Views
real science? - 28/04/2010 11:06:13 PM 951 Views
I linked to it further up the thread and you responded - 28/04/2010 11:19:51 PM 936 Views
ah, I think I missed it for some reason - 29/04/2010 12:18:13 AM 995 Views
who has time to read all of this crap *NM* - 29/04/2010 04:26:11 AM 404 Views
I'm familiar with the Rasmussen poll - 28/04/2010 11:31:30 PM 1255 Views
Here's Judge Napolitano's response to this - 27/04/2010 02:19:49 PM 951 Views

Reply to Message