Active Users:814 Time:15/06/2026 11:54:02 PM
Er? You misunderstand the law quite a lot there Isaac Send a noteboard - 06/09/2009 11:06:04 AM
Such blatant disregard for the first amendment rights of others shouldn't even have a leg to stand on. The school had every right to tell the students to take it away and I'm damned glad they did.

Why do so many people forget that your legal rights do not extend to infringing on the legal rights of others?

And churches wonder why less and less people want anything to do with them...

PS. I'd also like to note that this goes both ways. Minority groups have just as much of an obligation, so a Muslim wearing the same sort of shirt should get the same treatment in my book.


The school had every right to do what it did for a variety of reasons, the first amendment does not factor into it. First off, children do not have the normal cache of rights awarded to adults of sound mind under the bill of rights. They may not purchase firearms, for instance, nor is age considered a legitmate prejudice under the law, which is why stores can not only ban sale of cigs to minors but also items like matches and lighters, without suffering legal consequences, as they would if they refused to sell me one.

Further, the first amendment does not cover anyone's right not to be offended. You or I can walk up and down the street with T-shirts saying the most derogatory crap we want, there are very few restrictions most of which are never imposed, i.e. you can not incite to panic or riot by screaming a crowded theater is on fire when it isn't. These kids certainly did not violate anyone else's freedom of speech or religion, and were they adults, or were they not in a public school, it would be nigh impossible to take action on the matter.

You are certainly not violating anyone's rights by wearing t-shirts that decry their religion, there are any number of t-shirts sold which make snide or mocking comment about any number of creeds, religions, ethnicities, political affilitions or genders. Crude, tacky, ignorant, and 100% legal... as they absolutely should be.

Such restrictions as do exist were made for very specific reasons and are typically enforced as circumstance demands, they do not apply to minors, any more than spanking your child qualifies as assault or battery, as it would for an adult. Although I certainly agree the parents of these kids could use a good public flogging, they certainly did not violate any laws I am aware of, schools simply have additional leeway on certain matters for common sense reasons that have been upheld by SCOTUS many a time. So too, do businesses and workplaces have a right to enforce dress codes and moral restrictions - in the work place itself, and this too has nothing to do with anyone's failure to obey those restrictions actually violating someone else's rights.

Lastly, I have to take issue in this context with your remark "And churches wonder why less and less people want anything to do with them... " which is more than a tad ironic while decrying t-shirts calling a religion evil. You're criticizing all churches because one criticized a church, you just used nicer words. If the t-shirts had said "Islam is a religion with numerous faults that many of us feel inspire a disproportionate number of its followers to rash and wicked acts" it would have been much the same statement, just politer, like yours were.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Islam is of the Devil - 06/09/2009 03:30:51 AM 1748 Views
I swear, the levels of crazy are just increasing these days. - 06/09/2009 06:04:19 AM 1022 Views
People are stupid. - 06/09/2009 06:25:42 AM 1166 Views
This statement got me: - 06/09/2009 06:30:16 AM 1414 Views
Re: This statement got me: - 06/09/2009 07:20:17 AM 1017 Views
What you say about those places may be true - 06/09/2009 02:16:30 PM 1017 Views
Regardless... - 07/09/2009 04:34:48 AM 955 Views
Re: Regardless... - 07/09/2009 06:10:18 AM 1062 Views
I'm not advocating the killing of Muslims. - 08/09/2009 07:11:13 PM 1081 Views
Re: I'm not advocating the killing of Muslims. - 08/09/2009 10:15:55 PM 1053 Views
Okay... - 09/09/2009 04:04:29 PM 986 Views
You are free to wear offensive clothing - 08/09/2009 08:13:18 PM 1062 Views
There is a difference between hatred and truth. - 09/09/2009 04:04:02 PM 976 Views
You do know christans have done that as well don't you? - 09/09/2009 06:04:28 PM 1046 Views
The difference is... - 09/09/2009 06:16:13 PM 955 Views
really have you actaully read the Qur'an - 09/09/2009 06:33:38 PM 1029 Views
there are some unsavory passages, and he knows it. - 09/09/2009 06:46:59 PM 1018 Views
Acrually No I don't. - 09/09/2009 07:52:19 PM 897 Views
Someone should have told Jesus the OT was void - 09/09/2009 10:31:39 PM 1033 Views
Jesus was the one who voided it. - 10/09/2009 12:25:18 AM 1038 Views
so he was lying when he said he didn't? - 10/09/2009 03:27:14 AM 1097 Views
Christ never said that. - 10/09/2009 02:14:53 PM 999 Views
Logicaly, this is a stupid post. - 06/09/2009 03:58:43 PM 1053 Views
+1 *NM* - 06/09/2009 08:56:02 PM 480 Views
+2 *NM* - 06/09/2009 10:04:34 PM 450 Views
+3 *NM* - 06/09/2009 10:36:48 PM 467 Views
As an Englishman, why are you even posting in this thread then? *NM* - 07/09/2009 02:49:22 AM 486 Views
Because I can. - 07/09/2009 10:15:57 AM 1067 Views
So can he. - 07/09/2009 07:54:56 PM 972 Views
Yes - 08/09/2009 05:59:24 AM 1047 Views
It means a lot in context to the situation - 08/09/2009 07:14:50 PM 1092 Views
No, it does not. - 08/09/2009 07:20:49 PM 1055 Views
So now you can tell me what I can and can't do with my children? - 08/09/2009 11:31:16 PM 1070 Views
I can tell you what you can't make your children do in school. - 08/09/2009 11:59:21 PM 1015 Views
Re: I can tell you what you can't make your children do in school. - 09/09/2009 04:10:19 PM 1079 Views
Re: I can tell you what you can't make your children do in school. - 09/09/2009 04:27:32 PM 1133 Views
Define "disruptive". - 09/09/2009 06:19:36 PM 1012 Views
No. *NM* - 09/09/2009 06:26:43 PM 493 Views
Well said *NM* - 09/09/2009 06:55:22 PM 470 Views
Ooh, look, I'm being baited. - 09/09/2009 07:59:28 PM 983 Views
Then your argument has no merit. *NM* - 09/09/2009 07:52:47 PM 461 Views
you are making no sense - 08/09/2009 11:35:12 AM 1064 Views
Quite a bit. - 07/09/2009 04:31:59 AM 1037 Views
Luke 6:31 *NM* - 07/09/2009 08:41:54 PM 537 Views
That applies to them as well. *NM* - 08/09/2009 07:08:55 PM 377 Views
The thing I think you are missing... - 06/09/2009 07:18:45 PM 1110 Views
Wait, what? - 06/09/2009 08:29:14 PM 1079 Views
I... kinda have to agree with Ghav, there. - 06/09/2009 10:39:28 PM 1063 Views
Yeah, what you said! - 06/09/2009 11:51:19 PM 1132 Views
don't make me get all vulcan on you. *NM* - 07/09/2009 06:13:18 AM 448 Views
Wrong. - 07/09/2009 04:36:49 AM 1058 Views
That is why America is different than those countries. Duh. *NM* - 06/09/2009 07:58:53 PM 652 Views
Because in America - 07/09/2009 04:35:24 AM 1129 Views
Re: Because in America - 07/09/2009 06:16:05 AM 968 Views
And... - 08/09/2009 07:15:49 PM 983 Views
Jesus, you are a real piece of work. Moron. *NM* - 07/09/2009 11:52:02 PM 353 Views
I don't think I understand your basic reasoning. You can't be saying what it sounds like. - 08/09/2009 01:40:42 AM 1050 Views
Go, Tash, go! - 08/09/2009 05:52:01 AM 1010 Views
Re: I don't think I understand your basic reasoning. You can't be saying what it sounds like. - 08/09/2009 07:18:00 PM 1000 Views
"Their government" is the American government. *NM* - 08/09/2009 07:36:27 PM 426 Views
That is a concept many people can't seem to grasp *NM* - 08/09/2009 08:14:50 PM 442 Views
The elf has a point. *NM* - 08/09/2009 10:18:26 PM 499 Views
And yet I don't see CAIR.. - 09/09/2009 04:07:05 PM 958 Views
Why on earth should it? - 09/09/2009 05:14:30 PM 1020 Views
Because... - 09/09/2009 06:25:41 PM 1075 Views
Re: Because... - 09/09/2009 07:06:24 PM 1262 Views
Really? - 08/09/2009 08:02:42 PM 950 Views
Re: Really? - 09/09/2009 12:11:36 AM 1001 Views
Well it's not about whether it scans right to you. - 09/09/2009 04:06:06 PM 914 Views
Oh, I was just clarifying. - 09/09/2009 06:05:49 PM 967 Views
Re: I don't think I understand your basic reasoning. You can't be saying what it sounds like. - 08/09/2009 11:49:48 PM 1069 Views
Failed edit. *NM* - 08/09/2009 11:50:50 PM 472 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 09/09/2009 12:12:52 AM 476 Views
I'm appalled that this was even worthy of note - 06/09/2009 06:46:58 AM 1051 Views
Re: I'm appalled that this was even worthy of note - 06/09/2009 07:22:59 AM 1187 Views
It didn't infringe on the First Amendment rights of others. - 06/09/2009 07:28:35 AM 1022 Views
Er? You misunderstand the law quite a lot there - 06/09/2009 11:06:04 AM 1035 Views
I believe the rest of the Church has done a horrible job explaining... - 06/09/2009 08:02:25 PM 1014 Views
When will people learn tolerance/=support...? - 06/09/2009 12:30:23 PM 1092 Views
Well said *NM* - 06/09/2009 12:50:11 PM 473 Views
The sad thing is ou know it is the parents driving it all - 06/09/2009 02:37:08 PM 1146 Views
The parents are disgusting idiots - 06/09/2009 03:57:17 PM 1043 Views
Fundamentalist nutjobs. Sheesh! *NM* - 06/09/2009 07:57:09 PM 547 Views
The appropriate punishment... - 07/09/2009 06:03:25 AM 1054 Views
Punishment for what? - 07/09/2009 09:51:57 AM 1055 Views
When did I say anything about a law? - 07/09/2009 10:48:09 AM 1028 Views
That's the key point so many forget: - 07/09/2009 11:42:12 PM 899 Views
It's not that they forget, they never 'get' to begin with - 09/09/2009 07:18:09 PM 1077 Views
No, that's pretty much it. - 10/09/2009 03:42:25 AM 1129 Views
You're right. - 14/09/2009 11:11:38 AM 1211 Views
If I understand you - 14/09/2009 03:05:39 PM 1039 Views
Yes, that was it - 14/09/2009 04:17:45 PM 1206 Views

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