Active Users:1339 Time:31/07/2026 05:20:54 AM
Since were talking about the law, not your opinion of right an wrong, it's sort of a default Isaac Send a noteboard - 09/09/2009 05:01:08 PM
I don't think you're going to find a lot of people who think these parents were doing the right and proper thing, so debating its ethics are about as redundant and unnecessary as debating the merits of anti-semiticism, we're talking about rights.

As you pointed out, Schools make their own rules about what you can and can't do. And, they're completely within their rights to also impose consequences for breaking those rules.and, just like a workplace, schools will have rules about what you can and cannot wear, say, or do. That's just how it is.


Actually that is not how it is. Public schools do not get to make up rules about what people can or can't wear. The supreme court has ruled on this repeatedly. Neither public instituions or even private franchise have the right to ban things without question, many a lawsuit - quite a few of which have been successful - have challenged these sorts of things. Schools can limit certain rights in the name of security, disruption, etc. This isn't carte blanche, there are some pretty solid guidelines about it. It as to be reasonable and even-handed, or close to it, or the ACLU wil show up.
I agree with you this amendment argument is ridiculous. The children are being sent home for refusing to follow a school rule. In my high school, we had a rule that you weren't allowed to eat food on the second floor. If you refused to follow that rule, you could be suspended. It's really no different.


Bingo, it's a rule, and so long as it can't be shown to be applied in a discrimnatory fashion - banning an AC/DC concert shirt but letting someone else wear a 'Mozart Rules' short - as well as having at least some basis in reality, then by and large the school can do it. Banning eating on the second floor would be safe because they could easily rationalize it as a health issue, for instance. They be in serious trouble if the rule was instead "boys can eat in class, girls can't" or banning yawning.

My response to the article was somewhat off-the-cuff and not meant to be taken seriously. It was more of a response to the bit where the kids mentioned that they would be fine with a schoolmate coming to school with a shirt saying the same thing about Christianity. if they feel that way, they should have no issue wearing such a shirt in support of their peer's rights. Sort've a "put up or shut up."


Well, I appreciate how off-the-cuff remarks often get taken too seriously on account of a lack of verbal and tonal context. But even here, you're making a bad judgement. I'm a republican, I have no prob with wearing a "Canidate X for year Y" shirt, though I avoid doing so in most places because it is, well, disruptive. I also have no problem with someone wearing a shirt for the opposite candidate, but I'd be screaming holy heck if someone tried to get me to wear the other's guys shirt. It's the same as raising the flag on your lawn, perfectly legitimate expression of freedom, and making someone raise the flag on their lawn, which is basically the exact opposite of freedom and much worse then telling someone they can't raise a certain flag on their lawn. On the grand scale of oppression telling people 'no' on certain expressions is not as bad as making someone express themselves agianst their will and creed, and both are pretty f'd up.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Islam is of the Devil - 06/09/2009 03:30:51 AM 1765 Views
I swear, the levels of crazy are just increasing these days. - 06/09/2009 06:04:19 AM 1038 Views
People are stupid. - 06/09/2009 06:25:42 AM 1184 Views
This statement got me: - 06/09/2009 06:30:16 AM 1430 Views
Re: This statement got me: - 06/09/2009 07:20:17 AM 1033 Views
What you say about those places may be true - 06/09/2009 02:16:30 PM 1029 Views
Regardless... - 07/09/2009 04:34:48 AM 976 Views
Re: Regardless... - 07/09/2009 06:10:18 AM 1075 Views
I'm not advocating the killing of Muslims. - 08/09/2009 07:11:13 PM 1095 Views
Re: I'm not advocating the killing of Muslims. - 08/09/2009 10:15:55 PM 1064 Views
Okay... - 09/09/2009 04:04:29 PM 998 Views
You are free to wear offensive clothing - 08/09/2009 08:13:18 PM 1077 Views
There is a difference between hatred and truth. - 09/09/2009 04:04:02 PM 991 Views
You do know christans have done that as well don't you? - 09/09/2009 06:04:28 PM 1063 Views
The difference is... - 09/09/2009 06:16:13 PM 973 Views
really have you actaully read the Qur'an - 09/09/2009 06:33:38 PM 1042 Views
there are some unsavory passages, and he knows it. - 09/09/2009 06:46:59 PM 1034 Views
Acrually No I don't. - 09/09/2009 07:52:19 PM 907 Views
Someone should have told Jesus the OT was void - 09/09/2009 10:31:39 PM 1047 Views
Jesus was the one who voided it. - 10/09/2009 12:25:18 AM 1049 Views
so he was lying when he said he didn't? - 10/09/2009 03:27:14 AM 1114 Views
Christ never said that. - 10/09/2009 02:14:53 PM 1012 Views
Logicaly, this is a stupid post. - 06/09/2009 03:58:43 PM 1064 Views
+1 *NM* - 06/09/2009 08:56:02 PM 489 Views
+2 *NM* - 06/09/2009 10:04:34 PM 460 Views
+3 *NM* - 06/09/2009 10:36:48 PM 476 Views
As an Englishman, why are you even posting in this thread then? *NM* - 07/09/2009 02:49:22 AM 496 Views
Because I can. - 07/09/2009 10:15:57 AM 1080 Views
So can he. - 07/09/2009 07:54:56 PM 985 Views
Yes - 08/09/2009 05:59:24 AM 1068 Views
It means a lot in context to the situation - 08/09/2009 07:14:50 PM 1105 Views
No, it does not. - 08/09/2009 07:20:49 PM 1072 Views
So now you can tell me what I can and can't do with my children? - 08/09/2009 11:31:16 PM 1084 Views
I can tell you what you can't make your children do in school. - 08/09/2009 11:59:21 PM 1030 Views
Re: I can tell you what you can't make your children do in school. - 09/09/2009 04:10:19 PM 1093 Views
Re: I can tell you what you can't make your children do in school. - 09/09/2009 04:27:32 PM 1151 Views
Define "disruptive". - 09/09/2009 06:19:36 PM 1026 Views
No. *NM* - 09/09/2009 06:26:43 PM 503 Views
Well said *NM* - 09/09/2009 06:55:22 PM 478 Views
Ooh, look, I'm being baited. - 09/09/2009 07:59:28 PM 994 Views
Then your argument has no merit. *NM* - 09/09/2009 07:52:47 PM 470 Views
you are making no sense - 08/09/2009 11:35:12 AM 1079 Views
Quite a bit. - 07/09/2009 04:31:59 AM 1054 Views
Luke 6:31 *NM* - 07/09/2009 08:41:54 PM 547 Views
That applies to them as well. *NM* - 08/09/2009 07:08:55 PM 387 Views
The thing I think you are missing... - 06/09/2009 07:18:45 PM 1123 Views
Wait, what? - 06/09/2009 08:29:14 PM 1091 Views
I... kinda have to agree with Ghav, there. - 06/09/2009 10:39:28 PM 1075 Views
Yeah, what you said! - 06/09/2009 11:51:19 PM 1149 Views
don't make me get all vulcan on you. *NM* - 07/09/2009 06:13:18 AM 457 Views
Wrong. - 07/09/2009 04:36:49 AM 1082 Views
That is why America is different than those countries. Duh. *NM* - 06/09/2009 07:58:53 PM 661 Views
Because in America - 07/09/2009 04:35:24 AM 1140 Views
Re: Because in America - 07/09/2009 06:16:05 AM 981 Views
And... - 08/09/2009 07:15:49 PM 997 Views
Jesus, you are a real piece of work. Moron. *NM* - 07/09/2009 11:52:02 PM 362 Views
I don't think I understand your basic reasoning. You can't be saying what it sounds like. - 08/09/2009 01:40:42 AM 1064 Views
Go, Tash, go! - 08/09/2009 05:52:01 AM 1022 Views
Re: I don't think I understand your basic reasoning. You can't be saying what it sounds like. - 08/09/2009 07:18:00 PM 1015 Views
"Their government" is the American government. *NM* - 08/09/2009 07:36:27 PM 435 Views
That is a concept many people can't seem to grasp *NM* - 08/09/2009 08:14:50 PM 450 Views
The elf has a point. *NM* - 08/09/2009 10:18:26 PM 506 Views
And yet I don't see CAIR.. - 09/09/2009 04:07:05 PM 973 Views
Why on earth should it? - 09/09/2009 05:14:30 PM 1053 Views
Because... - 09/09/2009 06:25:41 PM 1087 Views
Re: Because... - 09/09/2009 07:06:24 PM 1292 Views
Really? - 08/09/2009 08:02:42 PM 964 Views
Re: Really? - 09/09/2009 12:11:36 AM 1018 Views
Well it's not about whether it scans right to you. - 09/09/2009 04:06:06 PM 927 Views
Oh, I was just clarifying. - 09/09/2009 06:05:49 PM 982 Views
Re: I don't think I understand your basic reasoning. You can't be saying what it sounds like. - 08/09/2009 11:49:48 PM 1081 Views
Failed edit. *NM* - 08/09/2009 11:50:50 PM 480 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 09/09/2009 12:12:52 AM 483 Views
I'm appalled that this was even worthy of note - 06/09/2009 06:46:58 AM 1068 Views
Re: I'm appalled that this was even worthy of note - 06/09/2009 07:22:59 AM 1200 Views
It didn't infringe on the First Amendment rights of others. - 06/09/2009 07:28:35 AM 1041 Views
Er? You misunderstand the law quite a lot there - 06/09/2009 11:06:04 AM 1045 Views
I believe the rest of the Church has done a horrible job explaining... - 06/09/2009 08:02:25 PM 1029 Views
When will people learn tolerance/=support...? - 06/09/2009 12:30:23 PM 1108 Views
Well said *NM* - 06/09/2009 12:50:11 PM 482 Views
The sad thing is ou know it is the parents driving it all - 06/09/2009 02:37:08 PM 1162 Views
The parents are disgusting idiots - 06/09/2009 03:57:17 PM 1058 Views
Fundamentalist nutjobs. Sheesh! *NM* - 06/09/2009 07:57:09 PM 555 Views
The appropriate punishment... - 07/09/2009 06:03:25 AM 1064 Views
Punishment for what? - 07/09/2009 09:51:57 AM 1068 Views
When did I say anything about a law? - 07/09/2009 10:48:09 AM 1039 Views
Since were talking about the law, not your opinion of right an wrong, it's sort of a default - 09/09/2009 05:01:08 PM 1037 Views
Eh... I wish you were right, but I don't think you are. - 10/09/2009 03:50:18 AM 1111 Views
Morse isn't a bad example - 10/09/2009 11:23:32 AM 1100 Views
That's the key point so many forget: - 07/09/2009 11:42:12 PM 911 Views
It's not that they forget, they never 'get' to begin with - 09/09/2009 07:18:09 PM 1096 Views
No, that's pretty much it. - 10/09/2009 03:42:25 AM 1146 Views
You're right. - 14/09/2009 11:11:38 AM 1223 Views
If I understand you - 14/09/2009 03:05:39 PM 1055 Views
Yes, that was it - 14/09/2009 04:17:45 PM 1222 Views

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