If you say so; I really try hard not to channel Pythagoras.
Joel Send a noteboard - 26/05/2010 09:26:22 AM

And you're doing a good job being helpful in that regard, thanks. 
'Daunting Notation' in my experience stops being daunting as soon as people stop trying to memorize and absorb the notation and instead stop and ask 'why do they use this notation?', which is often where knowing the history of the field, especially that specific problem, tends to help - along with a vague knowledge of latin and greek usually. You're almost always, when learning a new math or physics tool, better off looking up the original problem it was meant to solve and trying to work it out yourself for a bit, until even though you haven't solved it you have a strong familiarity with what actually is the problem, then you look at the solution and suddenly the notation makes obvious sense. Take a previous modular arithmetic example. the whole 'modular' and 'modulus' bit in there is just using 'module' in the sense of individual piece with its own distinct importance. That modulus is all that really matters, it's distinct and relevant existence to the problem at hand is why you are even using the method. The notation is just an easier and clear way of writing it in general form. 14 = 2 (mod 12) is simply how you'd write in math notation 'The fourteenth hour of the day looks the same on a clock as the second hour, or the 26th or 38th or 50th.' Of course it would be kind of case specific to just write 14=2 (clock) or 17=10=3 (week) or 367=2 (year) all of which everyone would recognize instantly but would instead be written as 14=2 (Mod 12), 17=3 (Mod 7), and 367=2 (Mod 365)... most notation is like that, just common sense terminology agreed on to be easier to read, not confusable in context with something else, and general enough to be usable for non obvious examples.
Lot to be said for that; it also helps to avoid pitfalls that have become common place due to the prevalence of people promoting things they don't properly grasp (e.g. the original logical positivists took God off the table as unverifiable, not nonexistent, but many modern heirs, or errs, opt to "simplify" that to the latter case. ) I should've made better use of that decade of free time with which I indulged myself, but had I done so I wouldn't have had a job. Something of a Catch 22, I suppose.
That 'no leading zeroes' thing is sort of rubbish though. The reason nothing else has a cyclic behavior without a leading zero is because in base 10 it is impossible to divide 1 by any number bigger than 10 without getting 0.0XXXX, you can't get less than .1 without having a zero, and you obviously can't get a number bigger than .1 when your divisor is greater than 10. Plenty of numbers cycle, 1/81 cycles, it's just that 81 is bigger than 10 so in base 10 it has to have a zero following the radix point. (Decimal point is just the name for the base 10 radix point), so it's absurd to even say that out of an infinite series of integers none else cycle without a zero because only the 0-9 in decimal can produce a number whose reciprocal is greater than .1, it's unique value in that respect is purely an artifact of base 10
It's less that only 7 produces such a value than it is that no other value does that without leading zeroes in base ten. Understanding why does take out some of the mystery, but it still seems odd that one and only one of eight digits (since the reciprocal of one is one and zero doesn't have one, being more the absence of value than a value itself) produces such a number. Maybe we should look for multiple non-trivial cyclic numbers in hex.

Yeah, that I can handle. Maybe I should delve a bit more to see what's actually going on but the notation is truly daunting for me. It's a bit like philosophy where you have to take a couple courses to define the terms before you can being the real study.
'Daunting Notation' in my experience stops being daunting as soon as people stop trying to memorize and absorb the notation and instead stop and ask 'why do they use this notation?', which is often where knowing the history of the field, especially that specific problem, tends to help - along with a vague knowledge of latin and greek usually. You're almost always, when learning a new math or physics tool, better off looking up the original problem it was meant to solve and trying to work it out yourself for a bit, until even though you haven't solved it you have a strong familiarity with what actually is the problem, then you look at the solution and suddenly the notation makes obvious sense. Take a previous modular arithmetic example. the whole 'modular' and 'modulus' bit in there is just using 'module' in the sense of individual piece with its own distinct importance. That modulus is all that really matters, it's distinct and relevant existence to the problem at hand is why you are even using the method. The notation is just an easier and clear way of writing it in general form. 14 = 2 (mod 12) is simply how you'd write in math notation 'The fourteenth hour of the day looks the same on a clock as the second hour, or the 26th or 38th or 50th.' Of course it would be kind of case specific to just write 14=2 (clock) or 17=10=3 (week) or 367=2 (year) all of which everyone would recognize instantly but would instead be written as 14=2 (Mod 12), 17=3 (Mod 7), and 367=2 (Mod 365)... most notation is like that, just common sense terminology agreed on to be easier to read, not confusable in context with something else, and general enough to be usable for non obvious examples.
Lot to be said for that; it also helps to avoid pitfalls that have become common place due to the prevalence of people promoting things they don't properly grasp (e.g. the original logical positivists took God off the table as unverifiable, not nonexistent, but many modern heirs, or errs, opt to "simplify" that to the latter case. ) I should've made better use of that decade of free time with which I indulged myself, but had I done so I wouldn't have had a job. Something of a Catch 22, I suppose.

Well, they're taking the position that 142857 is the only non-trivial case of a decimal without leading zeroes that repeats. Out of an infinite series of integers it seems to be in a class by itself.
That 'no leading zeroes' thing is sort of rubbish though. The reason nothing else has a cyclic behavior without a leading zero is because in base 10 it is impossible to divide 1 by any number bigger than 10 without getting 0.0XXXX, you can't get less than .1 without having a zero, and you obviously can't get a number bigger than .1 when your divisor is greater than 10. Plenty of numbers cycle, 1/81 cycles, it's just that 81 is bigger than 10 so in base 10 it has to have a zero following the radix point. (Decimal point is just the name for the base 10 radix point), so it's absurd to even say that out of an infinite series of integers none else cycle without a zero because only the 0-9 in decimal can produce a number whose reciprocal is greater than .1, it's unique value in that respect is purely an artifact of base 10
It's less that only 7 produces such a value than it is that no other value does that without leading zeroes in base ten. Understanding why does take out some of the mystery, but it still seems odd that one and only one of eight digits (since the reciprocal of one is one and zero doesn't have one, being more the absence of value than a value itself) produces such a number. Maybe we should look for multiple non-trivial cyclic numbers in hex.

Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Continuing the Math Theme, WTF Is Up with the Seven?
25/05/2010 02:12:09 AM
- 649 Views
25/05/2010 08:19:12 AM
- 480 Views
Number theory holds a concept called "cyclic numbers."
25/05/2010 06:04:43 AM
- 539 Views
"If leading zeros are not permitted on numerals, then 142857 is the only cyclic number in decimal. "
25/05/2010 06:27:36 AM
- 544 Views

Happy Birthday...?
25/05/2010 08:56:59 AM
- 414 Views

You're a day early
25/05/2010 09:10:30 AM
- 429 Views

Got me on a technicality.
25/05/2010 09:19:54 AM
- 330 Views
Re: Got me on a technicality.
25/05/2010 09:27:59 AM
- 369 Views
But we're AWESOME!
25/05/2010 09:47:30 AM
- 470 Views
25/05/2010 09:50:43 AM
- 347 Views

Number THEORY is great fun, but too many folks make math too tedious, I'm afraid.
25/05/2010 09:53:21 AM
- 385 Views

You tend to get cyclic repeats when dividing by primes
25/05/2010 11:58:34 AM
- 564 Views
I actually DO feel like taking a course on number theory.
25/05/2010 12:12:10 PM
- 522 Views
Re: I actually DO feel like taking a course on number theory.
25/05/2010 01:46:10 PM
- 365 Views
Well, I'm not vouching for Wikipedias claim, just reiterating it.
25/05/2010 02:35:23 PM
- 581 Views
It's usually right but I wouldn't but much value on the implied importance
25/05/2010 04:22:52 PM
- 426 Views
If you say so; I really try hard not to channel Pythagoras.
26/05/2010 09:26:22 AM
- 595 Views

Re: If you say so; I really try hard not to channel Pythagoras.
26/05/2010 10:00:37 AM
- 541 Views
