but, as Tom has pointed out, it's a socioeconomic and legal benefit being denied one group but given to another for no sound legal reasoning. Remember, you don't have a right to sit where you want on a bus, either, but that doesn't mean it's okay to tell someone where to sit based on factors such as race and gender. From a legal standpoint, how is sexual preference any different?
As so many have stated over the last few years (and even in this thread), that this is akin to the civil rights movement. That this entire debate is about giving equal rights to equal people. As I said...marriage isn't a right. Socioeconomic and legal benefits are not rights. What about me? I am single, but my brother lives with me? Why can't we have those same tax breaks?
You mentioned race and gender as being factors upon which people are differentiated. Those are factors which they can neither control nor have a choice over. Sexual preference, much as you stated, is just that....a preference. There is no proven genetic component which triggers homosexual behavior. On the contrary, it seems to be much more of a nurture component which changes the debate completely.
Ultimately, I think that the debate actually centers around the thought that society, by and large, should consider a homosexual partnership as valid and normal. There is a majority of people in California who disagree (for whatever reason). This isn't about rights, as none of us has a right to get married. This isn't so much about money or benefits, as none of us has a right to those either. There are all sorts of provisions in government which state "if you are in this situation, you get this benefit". If you don't qualify, you don't get it. Instead, this entire debate (in my thinking anyway) is about one aspect of American culture saying "this lifestyle is as normal as yours and you will accept that."
There are many who would think "No it isn't, and no I won't." Who are you, or more specifically a judge, to force someone to accept their opinion as fact? Again...this isn't about race or gender...its about an individual's conscious decision on who to love.
~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
Judge rules California's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional
- 04/08/2010 10:40:50 PM
1497 Views
Good news, but as the article says, it'll go all the way to the SC.
- 04/08/2010 10:55:58 PM
812 Views
So then is that how we do it?
- 04/08/2010 11:01:19 PM
952 Views
Of course.
- 04/08/2010 11:04:59 PM
843 Views
His point was
- 04/08/2010 11:40:14 PM
993 Views
Yeah but: What Ghavrel said below *NM*
- 05/08/2010 08:01:02 AM
475 Views
And again...
- 05/08/2010 06:08:56 PM
715 Views
To quote my property professor: "Can I make you think like a Californian?"
- 05/08/2010 06:39:48 PM
759 Views
I'm not the one who came up with the referendum system, you do realize.
- 04/08/2010 11:11:13 PM
833 Views
- 04/08/2010 11:11:13 PM
833 Views
The referendum system, in my opinion, has been a failure, especially in CA.
- 04/08/2010 11:46:21 PM
926 Views
democracy has been a failure in CA.
- 05/08/2010 02:42:21 PM
701 Views
No. It just shows the problems of a crazy electorate.
- 05/08/2010 03:29:21 PM
850 Views
we vote fro way to much crap in general
- 05/08/2010 02:41:19 PM
792 Views
Yes, you still have to abide by the Constitution, even if a lot of people don't like it. *NM*
- 05/08/2010 12:07:44 AM
426 Views
Amend the Constitution to alter the Fourteenth Amendment if you don't like it. *NM*
- 05/08/2010 01:09:51 AM
506 Views
just a devil's advocate position here, but....
- 05/08/2010 04:23:43 AM
878 Views
Marriage is either an economic status regulated by law or a religious institution.
- 05/08/2010 05:13:17 AM
885 Views
There are certain things that should not be decided by a vote...
- 05/08/2010 02:02:45 AM
863 Views
I do agree with you on that. Hell yes, and on a subject like this in particular.
- 05/08/2010 02:17:24 AM
887 Views
Re: I do agree with you on that. Hell yes, and on a subject like this in particular.
- 05/08/2010 10:46:54 AM
870 Views
I understand it.
- 05/08/2010 03:06:40 PM
866 Views
I know you don't support proposition 8
- 05/08/2010 03:29:34 PM
874 Views
- 05/08/2010 03:34:01 PM
886 Views
- 05/08/2010 03:29:34 PM
874 Views
- 05/08/2010 03:34:01 PM
886 Views
But that is just simplistic and silly to complain about when it is a long standing possibility
- 05/08/2010 03:46:59 PM
774 Views
Oh, ees it?
- 05/08/2010 04:07:39 PM
900 Views
- 05/08/2010 04:07:39 PM
900 Views
Well they knew the rules before they started the whole thing
- 05/08/2010 04:12:33 PM
779 Views
- 05/08/2010 04:12:33 PM
779 Views
Why would you complain if you won?
- 05/08/2010 04:15:20 PM
848 Views
- 05/08/2010 04:15:20 PM
848 Views
You could recognise that you won by the system working in a way you don't like?
- 05/08/2010 04:23:58 PM
726 Views
I'm sure that happens, in general.
- 06/08/2010 02:43:18 PM
724 Views
It seems to happen a lot nowadays
- 06/08/2010 03:06:33 PM
742 Views
It's so weird that you feel differently - there is only room for one opinion here!
- 06/08/2010 03:41:52 PM
656 Views
- 06/08/2010 03:41:52 PM
656 Views
instead it should be decided by judges who answer to no one? *NM*
- 05/08/2010 07:12:59 AM
426 Views
The same judges who upheld our private right to bear arms.
- 05/08/2010 02:09:07 PM
868 Views
not when judges stop using the Constitution
- 05/08/2010 02:30:51 PM
846 Views
Sexual preference is not the right being protected.
- 05/08/2010 03:22:04 PM
903 Views
I know that the 14th amendment is routinely used in ways it was never intended.
- 05/08/2010 05:25:07 PM
815 Views
I realize that, but it is ultimately a good thing.
- 05/08/2010 05:31:19 PM
892 Views
let's take away the citizenship of all black people if that's the way you think
- 05/08/2010 09:06:23 PM
759 Views
Come now lets not be stupid
- 06/08/2010 05:31:18 PM
711 Views
sorry but your statement was completely ignorant.
- 06/08/2010 07:27:09 PM
833 Views
I will talk as soon as you stop spouting stupid rhetoric and say something relevant
- 06/08/2010 07:54:09 PM
801 Views
Let's just be clear about which amendment is which.
- 05/08/2010 11:50:57 PM
758 Views
but that still ignores intent and expands the law in ways not intnented when it created
- 06/08/2010 04:53:43 AM
774 Views
Yes, no, no, and no.
- 06/08/2010 05:29:09 AM
827 Views
there are serious flaws in your thinking here
- 06/08/2010 06:18:13 PM
894 Views
Your assertions continue to lack support.
- 06/08/2010 07:23:17 PM
921 Views
not all you just refuse to see things you disagree with
- 06/08/2010 08:36:32 PM
882 Views
...said the pot to the kettle
- 06/08/2010 09:17:28 PM
961 Views
yes but a shiny stainless steel pot
- 09/08/2010 11:21:33 PM
1009 Views
You continue to be wrong about history and the role of courts.
- 10/08/2010 01:05:39 AM
1359 Views
If he's wrong, a lot of law scholars and Supreme Court Justices are wrong.
- 10/08/2010 01:44:05 AM
804 Views
Brown vs. Board of Education, 'nuff said. *NM*
- 10/08/2010 04:32:37 AM
424 Views
Actually, that only proves his point, if I understand correctly. *NM*
- 10/08/2010 11:11:19 AM
453 Views
part oif the problem appears to be you completely missing the point
- 10/08/2010 01:23:19 PM
1006 Views
There's a simple way to determine the degree to which that opinion is objective or subjective...
- 06/08/2010 09:32:21 PM
767 Views
Since when is marriage a right? *NM*
- 05/08/2010 04:11:16 PM
409 Views
it may not be a "right"...
- 05/08/2010 04:22:44 PM
745 Views
This is where the debate comes into play....
- 05/08/2010 05:04:08 PM
772 Views
It's a benefit that is being extended selectively to one set of the populace.
- 05/08/2010 04:52:52 PM
830 Views
Hey, I'm single....
- 05/08/2010 05:05:41 PM
757 Views
That's a specious argument and you know it.
- 05/08/2010 05:13:17 PM
815 Views
A homosexual has every opportunity as well.....
- 05/08/2010 05:23:56 PM
768 Views
Oh quit the bullshit already.
- 05/08/2010 05:29:15 PM
1008 Views
Sorry, but what a nonsense.
- 05/08/2010 09:27:17 PM
755 Views
hey that's it, jens! you solved the WHOLE PROBLEM!!!
- 05/08/2010 11:24:29 PM
873 Views
ON TO WORLD HUNGER!
- 06/08/2010 07:59:51 AM
761 Views
LET THEM HAVE CAEK. *NM*
- 06/08/2010 02:29:56 PM
394 Views
Are you sure it's wise to feed people on a lie? *NM*
- 06/08/2010 02:34:26 PM
487 Views
People are fed lies all the time
- 06/08/2010 09:30:37 PM
745 Views
Quite so, but I don't think it's commonly a mainstay of their diet *NM*
- 06/08/2010 09:50:33 PM
433 Views
It is the only thing which is abundant enough for everyone to have some...
*NM*
- 06/08/2010 10:01:44 PM
682 Views
*NM*
- 06/08/2010 10:01:44 PM
682 Views
I invite you to read the judge's conclusions, linked again inside.
- 05/08/2010 11:43:44 PM
854 Views
Since 1948
- 06/08/2010 04:01:02 AM
987 Views
gah. can. only. see. typo. *NM*
- 06/08/2010 03:43:21 PM
390 Views
I don't see any typo...
*NM*
- 06/08/2010 04:07:18 PM
448 Views
*NM*
- 06/08/2010 04:07:18 PM
448 Views
I agree
- 05/08/2010 07:22:17 AM
814 Views
And Civil Rights lost the Democrats the South.
- 05/08/2010 03:44:56 PM
829 Views
but it was done by congress passing laws and the president signing those laws
- 05/08/2010 04:20:19 PM
771 Views
I was under the impression that the supreme court had a role in it
- 05/08/2010 04:31:51 PM
769 Views
but the court was not over turning the laws passed by congress
- 05/08/2010 05:11:06 PM
841 Views
No, like in this case, isn't it?
- 05/08/2010 05:24:19 PM
743 Views
I would say that is another case of judicial activism and shows the danger of the practice
- 05/08/2010 05:43:02 PM
734 Views
Hard to believe it's the same governor who said "Gay marriage should be between a man and a woman." *NM*
- 04/08/2010 11:05:45 PM
497 Views
Link to the full court order inside:
- 04/08/2010 11:43:29 PM
973 Views
The judge quoting Scalia in favour of gay marriage is fairly amusing.
- 04/08/2010 11:50:47 PM
821 Views
What page was that on?
- 05/08/2010 11:25:49 AM
736 Views
Nah, it was way above page 109, in the findings of fact somewhere.
- 05/08/2010 12:37:48 PM
850 Views
Oh, that is brilliant.
- 05/08/2010 01:12:21 PM
758 Views
Pretty much.
- 05/08/2010 01:44:22 PM
881 Views
I've always wondered what basis there is for banning necrophilia if "it's disgusting" is invalid.
- 05/08/2010 01:51:19 PM
831 Views
because you cannot give consent when you are dead?
- 05/08/2010 03:04:46 PM
834 Views
what if you give consent while you are still alive?
- 05/08/2010 03:21:59 PM
911 Views
Is it then illegal?
- 05/08/2010 03:23:46 PM
822 Views
given I imagine the pro-necrophilia lobby isn't strong in numbers or influence
- 05/08/2010 03:33:11 PM
894 Views
Re: given I imagine the pro-necrophilia lobby isn't strong in numbers or influence
- 05/08/2010 03:34:57 PM
935 Views
I would think it would be illegal even then
- 05/08/2010 03:34:31 PM
846 Views
Wikipedia to the rescue!
- 05/08/2010 04:20:15 PM
995 Views
you would hope the other states would cover it under improper treatmentof human remains
- 05/08/2010 07:38:59 PM
794 Views
A dead body is just an object, not a person with rights.
- 05/08/2010 03:27:08 PM
831 Views
Yes, but
- 06/08/2010 08:42:05 AM
781 Views
Absolutely not.
- 06/08/2010 03:21:14 PM
835 Views
not to mention necrophilia has a large potential to be hazardous to health.
- 06/08/2010 09:42:43 PM
926 Views
Irrelevant decision.....this was heading to SCOTUS from day 1 *NM*
- 05/08/2010 12:53:26 AM
452 Views


