not all you just refuse to see things you disagree with
random thoughts Send a noteboard - 06/08/2010 08:36:32 PM
would it be legal for airlines to charge more for blacks?
It would not, but the illegality of this would not be based on the 14th Amendment, which is my point.
That is because it would deal with the direct issue 14th was created to deal with, which is my point. If the 14 can be applied to being over wieght then it would offer the same protection to overwieght people as it does to minorites. This is prety simple concept here and I am not sure why you are having difiiculty with it. You claimed the 14th wouldn't apply to airlines now you agree that is it does but claim I am not supporting my argument. I think you may not understand the concept of supporting an argument.
If the 14 was passed a few decades ago it might be valid to use it to strike down old laws but since it is about 150 years old I don't believe it is valid for judges now redefine it to mean what they would like it to mean. As you mentioned there is an amendment process and that processes isn't for judges to simply decide old amendments mean new things. The role of the courts is not to change society but to ensure that changes are enacted in accordance with the constitution. Anytime the courts are initiating the change their actions are suspect.
Everyone reinterprets the Constitution all the time. Should the 2nd Amendment be used to justify allowing personal ownership of assault weapons, despite the fact that nothing remotely as powerful existed when it was created? Should the 1st Amendment be used to justify removing limits on corporate contributions to political campaigns by claiming that money is speech? Should "free exercise of religion" include freedom from religion as well?
The second amendment was written to allow civilians to arm themselves the second was written to allow for the free expression of political point of views. In neither case has the courts changed the intent of the law they have merely clarified it to come in line with changing technology. There were no assault weapons when those amendments were passed and giant corporations did not get involved in directly in campaigns but there were homosexuals. If the intent had been to provide protection to homosexuals as a protected group they would been a record of that being discussed at the time.
The Constitution is a living document. I name interpretations with which I disagree and with which I agree, but the fact remains that this judge is far from an anomalous case in making one. In this specific case, both Due Process and Equal Protection are phrased very broadly and it's not at all a stretch to apply them.
It is because the 14th is written so broadly that we have to cautious of how much it is allowed to expand. It is written so broadly that the courts can use it to justify virtually any actions.
You are the one who is showing a serious lack of understanding of how checks and balance works. Judges should not be create laws or change existing laws to meet their personal ideal of justice and that is what is happening here. A judge wants to change a law to make something legal that has been illegal for virtually the entire history of the nation. This is a major social change for our nation. It is a change I support but it is still and major social change and the check and balance system is designed so that no single branch of government acting alone can enact major social changes but instead require all branches of government acting together. In other words major social should require consent from the people not the will of and rightly or wrongly that will does not exist right now. Supporters of gay rights like to sight the civil rights movement as an example I think that is often valid but you have to look at the entire movement. Civil rights did not move forward until we had a president a legislature and courts that was willing to move it forward. That happened because enough people were willing to vote for pro-civil right candidates. If the courts had tried to act alone they would have failed.
To get true change it requires not only all the branches of federal government to act together but for the states to participate as well. The federal government began the push for civil rights but it was not until the states became involved that we start seeing real change and the few hold states were forced to change eventually as well. Not all the states went along of course but the Jim Crow states were in the minority. How many states have passed legislation allowing same sex marriage?
Currently, gay marriage is legal in 5 states (Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Vermont) plus Washington, D.C. It has briefly been legal in Maine and California. New York, Rhode Island, and Maryland recognize same-sex marriages from other states but don't perform them.
And in how many of those states was it done through legislative action?
The United States is supposed to have a principled democracy (democratic republic) guided by the Constitution. This means that our system should not be accurately described as "majority rule," but as "majority rule with minority rights." The rights and freedoms of minorities must be protected for our system of government to remain legitimate, and the judicial branch acts, as it is intended, as a check on the activities of the other branches when they threaten that legitimacy by acting unconstitutionally.
And the other branches have to keep the judicial branch in check and not allow them to create which ever laws they see fit and can justify under broadly worded passages in the constitutions by applying them in ways that are clearly outside of the intent it was created for. Sadly we don’t have much a check in that regard outside of simply doing what Jackson did.
Unquantifiable musing about "big social changes" needing to be done "gradually" just doesn't make an impact when placed against the fundamental foundation of our nation's government.
Sorry but that is horse shit. The country is over two hundred years old and suddenly gay marriage is a fundamental part over nation’s government. I didn’t say large change had to be done gradually I said it has to be done with some level of consensus and the more the consensus the faster and more affective the change. That sort of change often takes time but that is incidental not required.
Also, your continued assertion that the judge is trying to "change the law" to meet his "personal idea of justice" shows nothing more than that you still haven't read the ruling. If you can point to specific passages indicating the judge is relying on his personal opinion above an objective interpretation of the facts and evidence, do so. Otherwise, quit it with the unsubstantiated claims.
Sorry but no I don’t have to dissect a legal opinion that is pages and pages long to believe that a gay judge from San Francisco who decides that the 14th amendment makes it unconstitutional for states to ban gay marriage is acting on his personal belief and not on the law. I am sure he is a brilliant man and his findings are well documented and supported but that does not change the fact that he is using his place on the bench to bring social change. If I wan't to make an indepth argument about this ruling it would make sense for me to dig deep into his ruling but I am making a briader argument then that.
Judge rules California's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional
04/08/2010 10:40:50 PM
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Good news, but as the article says, it'll go all the way to the SC.
04/08/2010 10:55:58 PM
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So then is that how we do it?
04/08/2010 11:01:19 PM
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Of course.
04/08/2010 11:04:59 PM
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His point was
04/08/2010 11:40:14 PM
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Yeah but: What Ghavrel said below *NM*
05/08/2010 08:01:02 AM
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And again...
05/08/2010 06:08:56 PM
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To quote my property professor: "Can I make you think like a Californian?"
05/08/2010 06:39:48 PM
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I'm not the one who came up with the referendum system, you do realize.
04/08/2010 11:11:13 PM
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The referendum system, in my opinion, has been a failure, especially in CA.
04/08/2010 11:46:21 PM
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democracy has been a failure in CA.
05/08/2010 02:42:21 PM
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No. It just shows the problems of a crazy electorate.
05/08/2010 03:29:21 PM
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we vote fro way to much crap in general
05/08/2010 02:41:19 PM
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Yes, you still have to abide by the Constitution, even if a lot of people don't like it. *NM*
05/08/2010 12:07:44 AM
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Amend the Constitution to alter the Fourteenth Amendment if you don't like it. *NM*
05/08/2010 01:09:51 AM
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just a devil's advocate position here, but....
05/08/2010 04:23:43 AM
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Marriage is either an economic status regulated by law or a religious institution.
05/08/2010 05:13:17 AM
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There are certain things that should not be decided by a vote...
05/08/2010 02:02:45 AM
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I do agree with you on that. Hell yes, and on a subject like this in particular.
05/08/2010 02:17:24 AM
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Re: I do agree with you on that. Hell yes, and on a subject like this in particular.
05/08/2010 10:46:54 AM
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I understand it.
05/08/2010 03:06:40 PM
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I know you don't support proposition 8
05/08/2010 03:29:34 PM
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05/08/2010 03:34:01 PM
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But that is just simplistic and silly to complain about when it is a long standing possibility
05/08/2010 03:46:59 PM
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Oh, ees it?
05/08/2010 04:07:39 PM
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Well they knew the rules before they started the whole thing
05/08/2010 04:12:33 PM
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Why would you complain if you won?
05/08/2010 04:15:20 PM
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You could recognise that you won by the system working in a way you don't like?
05/08/2010 04:23:58 PM
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I'm sure that happens, in general.
06/08/2010 02:43:18 PM
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It seems to happen a lot nowadays
06/08/2010 03:06:33 PM
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It's so weird that you feel differently - there is only room for one opinion here!
06/08/2010 03:41:52 PM
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instead it should be decided by judges who answer to no one? *NM*
05/08/2010 07:12:59 AM
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The same judges who upheld our private right to bear arms.
05/08/2010 02:09:07 PM
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not when judges stop using the Constitution
05/08/2010 02:30:51 PM
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Sexual preference is not the right being protected.
05/08/2010 03:22:04 PM
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I know that the 14th amendment is routinely used in ways it was never intended.
05/08/2010 05:25:07 PM
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I realize that, but it is ultimately a good thing.
05/08/2010 05:31:19 PM
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let's take away the citizenship of all black people if that's the way you think
05/08/2010 09:06:23 PM
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Come now lets not be stupid
06/08/2010 05:31:18 PM
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sorry but your statement was completely ignorant.
06/08/2010 07:27:09 PM
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I will talk as soon as you stop spouting stupid rhetoric and say something relevant
06/08/2010 07:54:09 PM
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Let's just be clear about which amendment is which.
05/08/2010 11:50:57 PM
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but that still ignores intent and expands the law in ways not intnented when it created
06/08/2010 04:53:43 AM
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Yes, no, no, and no.
06/08/2010 05:29:09 AM
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there are serious flaws in your thinking here
06/08/2010 06:18:13 PM
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Your assertions continue to lack support.
06/08/2010 07:23:17 PM
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not all you just refuse to see things you disagree with
06/08/2010 08:36:32 PM
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...said the pot to the kettle
06/08/2010 09:17:28 PM
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yes but a shiny stainless steel pot
09/08/2010 11:21:33 PM
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You continue to be wrong about history and the role of courts.
10/08/2010 01:05:39 AM
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If he's wrong, a lot of law scholars and Supreme Court Justices are wrong.
10/08/2010 01:44:05 AM
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Brown vs. Board of Education, 'nuff said. *NM*
10/08/2010 04:32:37 AM
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Actually, that only proves his point, if I understand correctly. *NM*
10/08/2010 11:11:19 AM
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part oif the problem appears to be you completely missing the point
10/08/2010 01:23:19 PM
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There's a simple way to determine the degree to which that opinion is objective or subjective...
06/08/2010 09:32:21 PM
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Since when is marriage a right? *NM*
05/08/2010 04:11:16 PM
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it may not be a "right"...
05/08/2010 04:22:44 PM
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It's a benefit that is being extended selectively to one set of the populace.
05/08/2010 04:52:52 PM
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Hey, I'm single....
05/08/2010 05:05:41 PM
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That's a specious argument and you know it.
05/08/2010 05:13:17 PM
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A homosexual has every opportunity as well.....
05/08/2010 05:23:56 PM
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Oh quit the bullshit already.
05/08/2010 05:29:15 PM
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Sorry, but what a nonsense.
05/08/2010 09:27:17 PM
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hey that's it, jens! you solved the WHOLE PROBLEM!!!
05/08/2010 11:24:29 PM
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ON TO WORLD HUNGER!
06/08/2010 07:59:51 AM
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LET THEM HAVE CAEK. *NM*
06/08/2010 02:29:56 PM
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Are you sure it's wise to feed people on a lie? *NM*
06/08/2010 02:34:26 PM
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People are fed lies all the time
06/08/2010 09:30:37 PM
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Quite so, but I don't think it's commonly a mainstay of their diet *NM*
06/08/2010 09:50:33 PM
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It is the only thing which is abundant enough for everyone to have some...
*NM*
06/08/2010 10:01:44 PM
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I invite you to read the judge's conclusions, linked again inside.
05/08/2010 11:43:44 PM
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Since 1948
06/08/2010 04:01:02 AM
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gah. can. only. see. typo. *NM*
06/08/2010 03:43:21 PM
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I don't see any typo...
*NM*
06/08/2010 04:07:18 PM
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I agree
05/08/2010 07:22:17 AM
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And Civil Rights lost the Democrats the South.
05/08/2010 03:44:56 PM
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but it was done by congress passing laws and the president signing those laws
05/08/2010 04:20:19 PM
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I was under the impression that the supreme court had a role in it
05/08/2010 04:31:51 PM
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but the court was not over turning the laws passed by congress
05/08/2010 05:11:06 PM
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No, like in this case, isn't it?
05/08/2010 05:24:19 PM
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I would say that is another case of judicial activism and shows the danger of the practice
05/08/2010 05:43:02 PM
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Hard to believe it's the same governor who said "Gay marriage should be between a man and a woman." *NM*
04/08/2010 11:05:45 PM
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Link to the full court order inside:
04/08/2010 11:43:29 PM
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The judge quoting Scalia in favour of gay marriage is fairly amusing.
04/08/2010 11:50:47 PM
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What page was that on?
05/08/2010 11:25:49 AM
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Nah, it was way above page 109, in the findings of fact somewhere.
05/08/2010 12:37:48 PM
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Oh, that is brilliant.
05/08/2010 01:12:21 PM
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Pretty much.
05/08/2010 01:44:22 PM
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I've always wondered what basis there is for banning necrophilia if "it's disgusting" is invalid.
05/08/2010 01:51:19 PM
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because you cannot give consent when you are dead?
05/08/2010 03:04:46 PM
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what if you give consent while you are still alive?
05/08/2010 03:21:59 PM
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Is it then illegal?
05/08/2010 03:23:46 PM
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given I imagine the pro-necrophilia lobby isn't strong in numbers or influence
05/08/2010 03:33:11 PM
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Re: given I imagine the pro-necrophilia lobby isn't strong in numbers or influence
05/08/2010 03:34:57 PM
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I would think it would be illegal even then
05/08/2010 03:34:31 PM
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Wikipedia to the rescue!
05/08/2010 04:20:15 PM
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you would hope the other states would cover it under improper treatmentof human remains
05/08/2010 07:38:59 PM
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A dead body is just an object, not a person with rights.
05/08/2010 03:27:08 PM
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Yes, but
06/08/2010 08:42:05 AM
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Absolutely not.
06/08/2010 03:21:14 PM
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not to mention necrophilia has a large potential to be hazardous to health.
06/08/2010 09:42:43 PM
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Irrelevant decision.....this was heading to SCOTUS from day 1 *NM*
05/08/2010 12:53:26 AM
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