Active Users:178 Time:20/05/2024 05:37:25 PM
In the interests of fairness ( this does not support or detract from my position), here is the full Tashmere Send a noteboard - 22/08/2010 09:22:50 PM
transcript of what was said.

It might add more fuel to what is already and interesting discussion.
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President Obama’s Iftar Remarks
“Ramadan is a reminder that Islam has always been part of America,” he says


"Ramadan is a celebration of a faith known for great diversity. And Ramadan is a reminder that Islam has always been part of America," President Obama says August 13.
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
August 13, 2010

REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
AT IFTAR DINNER

State Dining Room
8:37 P.M. EDT

THE PRESIDENT: Good evening, everybody. Welcome. Please, have a seat. Well, welcome to the White House. To you, to Muslim Americans across our country, and to more than one billion Muslims around the world, I extend my best wishes on this holy month. Ramadan Kareem.

I want to welcome members of the diplomatic corps; members of my administration; and members of Congress, including Rush Holt, John Conyers, and Andre Carson, who is one of two Muslim American members of Congress, along with Keith Ellison. So welcome, all of you.

Here at the White House, we have a tradition of hosting iftars that goes back several years, just as we host Christmas parties and seders and Diwali celebrations. And these events celebrate the role of faith in the lives of the American people. They remind us of the basic truth that we are all children of God, and we all draw strength and a sense of purpose from our beliefs.

These events are also an affirmation of who we are as Americans. Our Founders understood that the best way to honor the place of faith in the lives of our people was to protect their freedom to practice religion. In the Virginia Act of Establishing Religion Freedom, Thomas Jefferson wrote that “all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion.” The First Amendment of our Constitution established the freedom of religion as the law of the land. And that right has been upheld ever since.

Indeed, over the course of our history, religion has flourished within our borders precisely because Americans have had the right to worship as they choose — including the right to believe in no religion at all. And it is a testament to the wisdom of our Founders that America remains deeply religious — a nation where the ability of peoples of different faiths to coexist peacefully and with mutual respect for one another stands in stark contrast to the religious conflict that persists elsewhere around the globe.

Now, that's not to say that religion is without controversy. Recently, attention has been focused on the construction of mosques in certain communities — particularly New York. Now, we must all recognize and respect the sensitivities surrounding the development of Lower Manhattan. The 9/11 attacks were a deeply traumatic event for our country. And the pain and the experience of suffering by those who lost loved ones is just unimaginable. So I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. And Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground.

But let me be clear. As a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. (Applause.) And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America. And our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country and that they will not be treated differently by their government is essential to who we are. The writ of the Founders must endure.

We must never forget those who we lost so tragically on 9/11, and we must always honor those who led the response to that attack — from the firefighters who charged up smoke-filled staircases, to our troops who are serving in Afghanistan today. And let us also remember who we’re fighting against, and what we’re fighting for. Our enemies respect no religious freedom. Al Qaeda’s cause is not Islam — it’s a gross distortion of Islam. These are not religious leaders — they’re terrorists who murder innocent men and women and children. In fact, al Qaeda has killed more Muslims than people of any other religion — and that list of victims includes innocent Muslims who were killed on 9/11.

So that's who we’re fighting against. And the reason that we will win this fight is not simply the strength of our arms — it is the strength of our values. The democracy that we uphold. The freedoms that we cherish. The laws that we apply without regard to race, or religion, or wealth, or status. Our capacity to show not merely tolerance, but respect towards those who are different from us –- and that way of life, that quintessentially American creed, stands in stark contrast to the nihilism of those who attacked us on that September morning, and who continue to plot against us today.

In my inaugural address I said that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus — and non-believers. We are shaped by every language and every culture, drawn from every end of this Earth. And that diversity can bring difficult debates. This is not unique to our time. Past eras have seen controversies about the construction of synagogues or Catholic churches. But time and again, the American people have demonstrated that we can work through these issues, and stay true to our core values, and emerge stronger for it. So it must be — and will be — today.

And tonight, we are reminded that Ramadan is a celebration of a faith known for great diversity. And Ramadan is a reminder that Islam has always been a part of America. The first Muslim ambassador to the United States, from Tunisia, was hosted by President Jefferson, who arranged a sunset dinner for his guest because it was Ramadan — making it the first known iftar at the White House, more than 200 years ago. (Applause.)

Like so many other immigrants, generations of Muslims came to forge their future here. They became farmers and merchants, worked in mills and factories. They helped lay the railroads. They helped to build America. They founded the first Islamic center in New York City in the 1890s. They built America’s first mosque on the prairie of North Dakota. And perhaps the oldest surviving mosque in America — still in use today — is in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

Today, our nation is strengthened by millions of Muslim Americans. They excel in every walk of life. Muslim American communities — including mosques in all 50 states — also serve their neighbors. Muslim Americans protect our communities as police officers and firefighters and first responders. Muslim American clerics have spoken out against terror and extremism, reaffirming that Islam teaches that one must save human life, not take it. And Muslim Americans serve with honor in our military. At next week’s iftar at the Pentagon, tribute will be paid to three soldiers who gave their lives in Iraq and now rest among the heroes of Arlington National Cemetery.

These Muslim Americans died for the security that we depend on, and the freedoms that we cherish. They are part of an unbroken line of Americans that stretches back to our founding; Americans of all faiths who have served and sacrificed to extend the promise of America to new generations, and to ensure that what is exceptional about America is protected — our commitment to stay true to our core values, and our ability slowly but surely to perfect our union.

For in the end, we remain “one nation, under God, indivisible.” And we can only achieve “liberty and justice for all” if we live by that one rule at the heart of every great religion, including Islam — that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us.

So thank you all for being here. I wish you a blessed Ramadan. And with that, let us eat. (Applause.)

8:47 P.M. EDT

(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://www.america.gov)


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That was interesting. So having seen the main part of the speech but not know knowing where it was made, I can at least see a little of where people got the idea that he was supporting the mosque. They are not quite as unreasoning as I originally thought. But still I think that he made it clear that it wasn't a good idea. He just did it tactfully which is the only sane way to do it when you are in a room full of people that you would like to get to think something out for themselves. Fig leafs and olive branches are handy things to carry around.
President Obama's Iftar Remarks
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An amusing column on the NYC mosque by Maureen Dowd.... - 20/08/2010 12:33:27 AM 1383 Views
wow, that was an interesting read - 20/08/2010 02:03:52 AM 752 Views
Gingrich thinks he is a deep thinker? - 20/08/2010 09:42:15 AM 602 Views
We've been through this, too, haven't we? - 20/08/2010 10:12:15 AM 891 Views
He makes historical references as often as possible, or at least in pretty much everything I've seen - 20/08/2010 12:37:02 PM 707 Views
As he was a history professor and writes histories and alternate histories, this is not surprising - 20/08/2010 05:33:48 PM 895 Views
I'm aware of that - 20/08/2010 11:47:32 PM 625 Views
Re: I'm aware of that - 21/08/2010 12:40:29 AM 911 Views
Re: I'm aware of that - 21/08/2010 01:19:37 AM 767 Views
Re: I'm aware of that - 21/08/2010 01:59:48 AM 653 Views
Conservatives love Rome. I don't know why. - 21/08/2010 01:20:27 AM 709 Views
Rome was more often than not governed by aristocrats and did, after all, invent the republic. - 21/08/2010 04:50:53 PM 1024 Views
"One man, one vote" always reminds me of Pratchett - 21/08/2010 05:03:35 PM 681 Views
Me too *NM* - 21/08/2010 06:53:22 PM 446 Views
Except there doesn't seem to be any conflict between either position. - 20/08/2010 10:06:20 AM 837 Views
When has logical consistency trumped politics? *NM* - 20/08/2010 01:50:55 PM 351 Views
True, but it does mean there's no "there" there. - 20/08/2010 02:41:49 PM 665 Views
He has to learn he needs to be crystal clear on sensitive issues - 20/08/2010 02:03:43 PM 908 Views
In Washington, one must always present the APPEARANCE of integrity... - 20/08/2010 02:40:24 PM 757 Views
Clinton lied about the BJ but what is your airtight proof that Bush lied? - 20/08/2010 07:44:53 PM 833 Views
Ask and ye shall receive: - 21/08/2010 06:42:50 PM 1026 Views
This is a bit along the lines of what I have been thinking. - 20/08/2010 07:49:15 PM 874 Views
that sort of illustrates the problem - 20/08/2010 08:56:42 PM 728 Views
It does - 22/08/2010 04:56:54 PM 646 Views
Can't find anything now on the context of the second statement. - 21/08/2010 05:05:51 PM 766 Views
I didn't see the problem either. He was simply stating the obvious. - 21/08/2010 01:39:44 AM 615 Views
maybe - 21/08/2010 02:49:40 AM 859 Views
Wow that is probably the best Dowd column I have ever read - 21/08/2010 01:35:36 AM 641 Views
Yes, his backtracking was quite pussy-ish. *NM* - 21/08/2010 04:00:31 AM 310 Views
How did he "backtrack" exactly? - 21/08/2010 04:35:33 PM 918 Views
c'mon Joel. are you being intentionally thick? - 21/08/2010 05:02:27 PM 946 Views
Having read those quotes I don't think he was backtracking on anything. (With link to speech) - 22/08/2010 06:27:06 AM 891 Views
*NM* - 22/08/2010 01:37:23 PM 352 Views
did you take into your consideration - 22/08/2010 03:50:59 PM 638 Views
I can't imagine why they would express concern over it. It wasn't controversial. That is on them - 22/08/2010 03:58:32 PM 840 Views
that would be - 22/08/2010 04:02:08 PM 930 Views
But quote B just reiterated what he said the first time. - 22/08/2010 04:13:21 PM 761 Views
I agree he is not backtracking - 22/08/2010 06:49:36 PM 747 Views
I agree with you, Joel and Tash on this one. - 22/08/2010 07:52:34 PM 806 Views
While we're picking sides, I'm with Mook and Roland. - 22/08/2010 08:20:11 PM 675 Views
I never fail to be impressed with your intelligence - 22/08/2010 08:25:11 PM 822 Views
I like how he's got rhetorical talents when it works - 22/08/2010 08:32:15 PM 698 Views
nope just human *NM* - 22/08/2010 08:37:17 PM 378 Views
that's not what Paul just said. - 22/08/2010 08:42:24 PM 754 Views
He couldn't stay out, no. - 22/08/2010 08:56:47 PM 800 Views
I don't want to argue with you on a Sunday, my religion says I have to relax. - 22/08/2010 09:03:54 PM 820 Views
key word: seem - 22/08/2010 09:06:40 PM 735 Views
I was only using that term for you guys. I don't feel like beating you with a rolling pin until you - 22/08/2010 09:14:39 PM 634 Views
good thing - 22/08/2010 09:39:52 PM 1038 Views
he could have and should have stayed out - 22/08/2010 09:57:57 PM 767 Views
I think he's certainly got rhetoric talents... - 22/08/2010 08:54:11 PM 1171 Views
You don't really seem like you're taking a side to me. - 22/08/2010 09:14:02 PM 853 Views
I'm not even taking the time to comment on something so obvious as what he did. *NM* - 22/08/2010 02:53:10 AM 436 Views
Except, of course, that you just did. - 22/08/2010 12:30:00 PM 769 Views
Joel - 22/08/2010 05:37:45 AM 944 Views
That last line was golden. *NM* - 22/08/2010 05:40:56 AM 406 Views
His phrasing in the first speech implied that it was a bad idea. But legally they have the right. - 22/08/2010 06:32:59 AM 864 Views
nonsense - 22/08/2010 03:39:30 PM 815 Views
I still don't see how it can be misinterpreted except by intent by the listener. - 22/08/2010 04:08:52 PM 789 Views
so we have reached the point of no return... - 22/08/2010 04:18:46 PM 798 Views
In your case it would have to be number 2. - 22/08/2010 07:38:20 PM 773 Views
ah, but I have no agenda here... - 22/08/2010 07:41:59 PM 603 Views
lol.<3 - 22/08/2010 08:49:35 PM 779 Views
that it is... - 22/08/2010 08:57:05 PM 733 Views
Tash you are very much a fair person in this world - 22/08/2010 08:34:38 PM 856 Views
Or there is another option: 3) He was using tact. - 22/08/2010 09:01:49 PM 774 Views
On the off chance that this: - 23/08/2010 12:38:48 AM 955 Views
I do remember your reply... - 23/08/2010 02:57:29 AM 1189 Views
Lies, prevarication and deceit again, eh? - 22/08/2010 01:17:45 PM 1249 Views
that was a decent explanation.... - 22/08/2010 05:18:18 PM 717 Views
Thanks. - 22/08/2010 05:41:28 PM 772 Views
I do feel bad for them - 22/08/2010 08:40:36 PM 669 Views
Re: Joel - 22/08/2010 07:53:51 PM 805 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 22/08/2010 08:25:38 PM 505 Views
In the interests of fairness ( this does not support or detract from my position), here is the full - 22/08/2010 09:22:50 PM 977 Views

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