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I'm not assuming there's an underlying bad nature, I am saying she should look to see if it's there. Phelix Send a noteboard - 08/09/2010 10:27:21 PM
... just because they used a word that's so frequently thrown around as an insult. Quite often good naturedly, especially in highly macho arenas like rugby fandom can be. The biggest insult that macho blokes can throw at other blokes is weakness, and that's the meaning that faggot most often has in those circles.


I can't speak to those cultures because I don't know them very well. I do know in similar groups I've interacted with, I spent some time a box factory outside of Johannesburg, faggot definitely meant queer. I know South Africa isn't New Zealand, but they're similar enough in this instance, no?

It's like calling someone an arsehole. You just say it, and most often don't mean it.


But arsehole doesn't target a specific population and denigrate them. Everyone has an arsehole, and if someone is being an arse, you're calling them out for their behavior. Calling someone a faggot is different.

Yes, it is certainly becoming a horrible insult for homosexuals, but she probably heard it a lot from her older male relatives so it won't have that meaning for her.


She also probably heard its more recent meaning all the time in school and at athletic events.

The American influence really only became huge in the late 70s and early 80s. Faggot is a much older insult than that.


But she is not. She's 22, if I recall the article correctly, which means she would have been born in 88, well after the timeframe you put on the American Influence becoming big. She would have grown up hearing it in its more recent context and meaning as well as from older male relatives in the older context.

That's what I mean. So no, she doesn't need to "soul search". She needs to think before she speaks or tweets, or whatever. And she needs to remember the connotation the word has for most people around the world and not use it again. That's as far as it needs to go, IMO.


I think we're going to have to disagree on this one. I don't think a bit of soul searching is a bad thing. Anytime you hit a major bump, you should stop to look and think about why it happened, and this seems to be counting as a major bump.

If there's no underlying dislike for queer folk, fine, she'll go on, none the worse for having looked inside herself. If she looks, and realizes she does have an issue, she can address it.

What's the problem with that?
I was Phelix on wotmania, I will always be Phelix in the "real" world, and now I am Phelix on RAFO.

You will make all kinds of mistakes; but as long as you are generous and true and also fierce you cannot hurt the world or even seriously distress her.- Churchill

*MySmiley*
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Interesting way to bring people together - 08/09/2010 04:36:19 PM 2186 Views
That is priceless. Go Stephanie Rice! *NM* - 08/09/2010 04:38:27 PM 604 Views
omigod....what a ridiculous overreaction - 08/09/2010 04:55:55 PM 1340 Views
omigod....what a ridiculous overreaction - 08/09/2010 04:55:55 PM 1026 Views
1. That girl is an idiot who needs to do some soul searching... - 08/09/2010 07:07:47 PM 1298 Views
? not that her comment was excusable... - 08/09/2010 07:45:59 PM 1384 Views
It's not a cardinal sin against humanity... - 08/09/2010 07:55:55 PM 1509 Views
or it just means... - 08/09/2010 08:18:57 PM 1428 Views
Societal problems don't go away from the group level. - 08/09/2010 08:25:21 PM 1228 Views
your soul is your being - 08/09/2010 08:43:18 PM 1295 Views
Just because you search does not mean you re-evaluate. - 08/09/2010 08:45:31 PM 1188 Views
You have an odd definition of homophobe (or at least that's what your last paragraph implies). - 08/09/2010 10:04:52 PM 1276 Views
I was trying to use her words... - 08/09/2010 10:17:32 PM 1382 Views
Ah, okay. Her apology does seem rather clumsy, agreed there. - 08/09/2010 11:05:34 PM 1217 Views
Glad to clear up that confusion. - 08/09/2010 11:11:35 PM 1398 Views
I don't think you should read too much in the exact wording of her apology. - 08/09/2010 11:24:21 PM 1300 Views
I'm horrible for tearing into the meaning of words. - 08/09/2010 11:36:34 PM 1280 Views
Entirely agree *NM* - 08/09/2010 10:46:12 PM 680 Views
You should watch that Southpark episode where they change the meaning of the word faggot. - 08/09/2010 09:24:16 PM 1202 Views
I've seen it, and it was funny. - 08/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1358 Views
Suspect you need to consider the way the word is used in other countries. - 08/09/2010 09:46:05 PM 1213 Views
I admit, I don't know many (any) kiwis personally (in person that is)... - 08/09/2010 09:52:45 PM 1197 Views
The insult word for homosexuals Downunder tends to be Fruit or Queer. - 08/09/2010 09:58:04 PM 1398 Views
OK, I can see that. - 08/09/2010 10:09:16 PM 1295 Views
I think it's unfair to people to assume that there's some underlying bad nature... - 08/09/2010 10:18:29 PM 1251 Views
I'm not assuming there's an underlying bad nature, I am saying she should look to see if it's there. - 08/09/2010 10:27:21 PM 1351 Views
Don't forget Poofta!! - 08/09/2010 10:57:00 PM 1042 Views
Heh, I had forgotten that. - 08/09/2010 10:58:53 PM 1338 Views
She said she needs to learn to think before she tweets lol - 08/09/2010 08:14:38 PM 1615 Views
Yes, but that's just a surface change. - 08/09/2010 08:20:59 PM 1440 Views
Re: Yes, but that's just a surface change. - 08/09/2010 08:39:52 PM 1666 Views
Re: Yes, but that's just a surface change. - 08/09/2010 08:43:55 PM 1279 Views
mm, i doubt that would make people shut up - 08/09/2010 08:44:29 PM 1160 Views
A concerted effort would do it... - 08/09/2010 08:47:50 PM 1246 Views
heh, it's pretty cool that everyone came together like that - 08/09/2010 10:52:50 PM 1045 Views
"Just because a person is gay, mayor, doesn't mean he is a fag" - 09/09/2010 05:27:50 AM 1146 Views
It was a very good game though, wasn't it? *NM* - 09/09/2010 12:56:33 PM 720 Views

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