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I'm not assuming there's an underlying bad nature, I am saying she should look to see if it's there. Phelix Send a noteboard - 08/09/2010 10:27:21 PM
... just because they used a word that's so frequently thrown around as an insult. Quite often good naturedly, especially in highly macho arenas like rugby fandom can be. The biggest insult that macho blokes can throw at other blokes is weakness, and that's the meaning that faggot most often has in those circles.


I can't speak to those cultures because I don't know them very well. I do know in similar groups I've interacted with, I spent some time a box factory outside of Johannesburg, faggot definitely meant queer. I know South Africa isn't New Zealand, but they're similar enough in this instance, no?

It's like calling someone an arsehole. You just say it, and most often don't mean it.


But arsehole doesn't target a specific population and denigrate them. Everyone has an arsehole, and if someone is being an arse, you're calling them out for their behavior. Calling someone a faggot is different.

Yes, it is certainly becoming a horrible insult for homosexuals, but she probably heard it a lot from her older male relatives so it won't have that meaning for her.


She also probably heard its more recent meaning all the time in school and at athletic events.

The American influence really only became huge in the late 70s and early 80s. Faggot is a much older insult than that.


But she is not. She's 22, if I recall the article correctly, which means she would have been born in 88, well after the timeframe you put on the American Influence becoming big. She would have grown up hearing it in its more recent context and meaning as well as from older male relatives in the older context.

That's what I mean. So no, she doesn't need to "soul search". She needs to think before she speaks or tweets, or whatever. And she needs to remember the connotation the word has for most people around the world and not use it again. That's as far as it needs to go, IMO.


I think we're going to have to disagree on this one. I don't think a bit of soul searching is a bad thing. Anytime you hit a major bump, you should stop to look and think about why it happened, and this seems to be counting as a major bump.

If there's no underlying dislike for queer folk, fine, she'll go on, none the worse for having looked inside herself. If she looks, and realizes she does have an issue, she can address it.

What's the problem with that?
I was Phelix on wotmania, I will always be Phelix in the "real" world, and now I am Phelix on RAFO.

You will make all kinds of mistakes; but as long as you are generous and true and also fierce you cannot hurt the world or even seriously distress her.- Churchill

*MySmiley*
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Interesting way to bring people together - 08/09/2010 04:36:19 PM 1964 Views
That is priceless. Go Stephanie Rice! *NM* - 08/09/2010 04:38:27 PM 504 Views
omigod....what a ridiculous overreaction - 08/09/2010 04:55:55 PM 1150 Views
omigod....what a ridiculous overreaction - 08/09/2010 04:55:55 PM 834 Views
1. That girl is an idiot who needs to do some soul searching... - 08/09/2010 07:07:47 PM 1125 Views
? not that her comment was excusable... - 08/09/2010 07:45:59 PM 1184 Views
It's not a cardinal sin against humanity... - 08/09/2010 07:55:55 PM 1311 Views
or it just means... - 08/09/2010 08:18:57 PM 1226 Views
Societal problems don't go away from the group level. - 08/09/2010 08:25:21 PM 1067 Views
your soul is your being - 08/09/2010 08:43:18 PM 1110 Views
Just because you search does not mean you re-evaluate. - 08/09/2010 08:45:31 PM 991 Views
You have an odd definition of homophobe (or at least that's what your last paragraph implies). - 08/09/2010 10:04:52 PM 1074 Views
I was trying to use her words... - 08/09/2010 10:17:32 PM 1146 Views
Ah, okay. Her apology does seem rather clumsy, agreed there. - 08/09/2010 11:05:34 PM 1027 Views
Glad to clear up that confusion. - 08/09/2010 11:11:35 PM 1215 Views
I don't think you should read too much in the exact wording of her apology. - 08/09/2010 11:24:21 PM 1077 Views
I'm horrible for tearing into the meaning of words. - 08/09/2010 11:36:34 PM 1065 Views
Entirely agree *NM* - 08/09/2010 10:46:12 PM 581 Views
You should watch that Southpark episode where they change the meaning of the word faggot. - 08/09/2010 09:24:16 PM 966 Views
I've seen it, and it was funny. - 08/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1164 Views
Suspect you need to consider the way the word is used in other countries. - 08/09/2010 09:46:05 PM 1032 Views
I admit, I don't know many (any) kiwis personally (in person that is)... - 08/09/2010 09:52:45 PM 1018 Views
The insult word for homosexuals Downunder tends to be Fruit or Queer. - 08/09/2010 09:58:04 PM 1210 Views
OK, I can see that. - 08/09/2010 10:09:16 PM 1085 Views
I think it's unfair to people to assume that there's some underlying bad nature... - 08/09/2010 10:18:29 PM 1076 Views
I'm not assuming there's an underlying bad nature, I am saying she should look to see if it's there. - 08/09/2010 10:27:21 PM 1170 Views
Don't forget Poofta!! - 08/09/2010 10:57:00 PM 877 Views
Heh, I had forgotten that. - 08/09/2010 10:58:53 PM 1086 Views
She said she needs to learn to think before she tweets lol - 08/09/2010 08:14:38 PM 1421 Views
Yes, but that's just a surface change. - 08/09/2010 08:20:59 PM 1258 Views
Re: Yes, but that's just a surface change. - 08/09/2010 08:39:52 PM 1473 Views
Re: Yes, but that's just a surface change. - 08/09/2010 08:43:55 PM 1096 Views
mm, i doubt that would make people shut up - 08/09/2010 08:44:29 PM 958 Views
A concerted effort would do it... - 08/09/2010 08:47:50 PM 1045 Views
heh, it's pretty cool that everyone came together like that - 08/09/2010 10:52:50 PM 857 Views
"Just because a person is gay, mayor, doesn't mean he is a fag" - 09/09/2010 05:27:50 AM 955 Views
It was a very good game though, wasn't it? *NM* - 09/09/2010 12:56:33 PM 614 Views

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