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are you socializing your debt when it is a private bank? random thoughts Send a noteboard - 13/10/2010 03:14:48 PM


Morality has sod all to do with it. If you're negative equitied to the hilt and you can pay your monthly mortgage, there is no argument. You owe the money and you may not gleefully socialise your debt. If you lose your job and can't make the payment until you find another, the bank's best interest here is to bear with you for a little while. If you took out a massive mortgage based on nonsense unsustainable earnings and then lose your job, you're an idiot and you will lose your house, and you will owe them the difference between the sale price and the mortgage amount.

I have very little sympathy for financial morons who push their debt on my tax bill, or my interest rate. Has nobody ever heard of moral hazard? They'll just do it again.


When you talk about financial morons who pushed their debt on your tax bill are you talking about the banks because they would fit that description? The banks gleefully socialized their bad investments. The banks charge a fee for the risk they are taking on why should the individual feel obligated to absorb all the loss while still paying that risk fee to the bank?

If enough people fail to pay their mortgage the bank will fail it is only because we have allowed banks to grow so large that the economy can not survive them failing that we have to socialize that debt. If not we could just allow the banks to fail do to their poor lending practices. Why do we expect the individuals in the worst hit areas to simply buck up and take one for the team out of some sense of social moral obligation? We don't seem to expect banks to behave in moral fashion, simply a legal one, but we expect individuals to even though they are paying an extremely high price for those morals and we are willing to help shoulder that cost.

I see a lot of people blaming the home owner for an idiot when they bought their house but that really is simply us rationalizing an unsympathetic attitude towards these people. I see a lot people talking about speculators or people buying homes that they could in no way afford but what about the guy who simply lived it the area and need a house? He bought a house he could afford and now it is worth 60% of what he paid for it. He should just be a good little citizen and take the hit all by himself? He isn’t legally required to so why should he be morally required to?
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Is walking away from a mortgage immoral? - 12/10/2010 04:45:43 PM 1500 Views
Just as a contract is a two way street - - 12/10/2010 05:12:09 PM 1002 Views
do we have a moral obligation to society? - 12/10/2010 06:00:17 PM 989 Views
It's a good question - 14/10/2010 02:41:21 AM 895 Views
Sort of have to disagree... - 13/10/2010 02:52:07 AM 960 Views
That's not true actually - 14/10/2010 02:35:43 AM 892 Views
Of course it's immoral. - 12/10/2010 05:13:16 PM 960 Views
But does one sided morality work? - 12/10/2010 05:38:56 PM 1087 Views
That's the only kind of morality there is! What the hell is wrong with you? - 12/10/2010 08:15:55 PM 908 Views
nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again - 12/10/2010 09:34:33 PM 903 Views
Re: nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again - 15/10/2010 02:50:49 PM 1410 Views
well I really can't argue with the wrong is wrong end of story belief system - 15/10/2010 05:40:22 PM 1105 Views
A contract isn't a promise; it's a legal agreement. *NM* - 12/10/2010 06:25:24 PM 451 Views
Which is why contracts have to be pages and pages long and combed over by bloodsucking lawyers. - 12/10/2010 06:39:18 PM 948 Views
I would agree with you if contracts didn't provide for breaking them. - 12/10/2010 07:33:15 PM 796 Views
Hrm. - 12/10/2010 07:35:38 PM 1009 Views
It's not immoral to break the marriage contract. - 12/10/2010 08:19:50 PM 1061 Views
I don't see that as the flaw in my logic. - 12/10/2010 08:37:52 PM 971 Views
Re: I don't see that as the flaw in my logic. - 12/10/2010 09:00:00 PM 1051 Views
also - 12/10/2010 09:37:38 PM 913 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever. - 13/10/2010 11:38:06 PM 1034 Views
That must be why they have you sign something called an agreementory note *NM* - 12/10/2010 07:33:32 PM 466 Views
Exactly *NM* - 12/10/2010 07:58:25 PM 440 Views
So, you think bankruptcy laws are immoral? - 13/10/2010 12:18:43 AM 940 Views
I don't think it's immoral at all. The contract usually specifies penalties for breach. - 12/10/2010 05:28:34 PM 1051 Views
I thought the answer might be something like that. *NM* - 12/10/2010 05:35:35 PM 423 Views
that is close to the way I see it - 12/10/2010 05:45:25 PM 892 Views
It's both legal and immoral. - 12/10/2010 06:37:49 PM 978 Views
You didn't mention the third party - 12/10/2010 08:26:56 PM 826 Views
in a way I did since I did mention society - 12/10/2010 08:54:07 PM 969 Views
Thus the edit - 12/10/2010 09:10:53 PM 1001 Views
either way I think you made a good point *NM* - 12/10/2010 09:38:58 PM 416 Views
will those neighbors... - 14/10/2010 04:52:26 AM 1132 Views
All depends where you get your morals from, really. - 12/10/2010 08:28:41 PM 969 Views
I guess what i was trying to ask, at least in part - 12/10/2010 09:48:24 PM 969 Views
What if you look at it from the other perspective? - 12/10/2010 09:00:20 PM 980 Views
do you think they would if they had a legal way to do it? - 12/10/2010 10:04:57 PM 951 Views
Good point. *NM* - 12/10/2010 11:10:26 PM 439 Views
Sure, you could do that. - 13/10/2010 01:54:55 AM 975 Views
Much like the concept of morality itself. - 12/10/2010 11:47:23 PM 886 Views
I find this line particularly interesting. - 13/10/2010 12:13:18 AM 919 Views
Dunno. - 13/10/2010 12:56:56 AM 1019 Views
As a professional in financial services - no, it is not. - 13/10/2010 01:44:18 AM 932 Views
but almost nobody sees it that way - 13/10/2010 12:53:25 PM 926 Views
Is the deal that if you default, the bank gets the house and nothing else, though? - 13/10/2010 02:40:48 PM 917 Views
yes but the bank has a limited ability to collect - 13/10/2010 02:47:34 PM 835 Views
I think it's morally wrong to walk away from credit card debt. *NM* - 13/10/2010 09:43:11 PM 429 Views
I'm curious how you reconcile that - 13/10/2010 09:47:59 PM 949 Views
Collateral - 19/10/2010 07:21:14 PM 1444 Views
I agree, what do you think is different? - 13/10/2010 09:59:36 PM 945 Views
I lost sleep over it, but I did it anyway. - 13/10/2010 05:24:19 AM 1015 Views
OK what if you take it a step further - 13/10/2010 03:44:30 PM 1023 Views
Good question - 14/10/2010 05:13:41 AM 987 Views
I have some questions about this issue. - 13/10/2010 08:14:37 AM 948 Views
how do those questions affect the morality of the situation? - 13/10/2010 03:20:14 PM 894 Views
Obviously, the essential difference is can't pay versus won't pay. - 13/10/2010 02:16:07 PM 904 Views
are you socializing your debt when it is a private bank? - 13/10/2010 03:14:48 PM 975 Views
You are when said bank requires a bailout. And very many of them do. - 13/10/2010 03:22:59 PM 917 Views
it is the home fault that the banks have to be bailed out - 13/10/2010 03:49:37 PM 964 Views
I believe it immoral to do harm. - 13/10/2010 04:38:28 PM 984 Views
I really don't understand a system where this could be an advantage. - 13/10/2010 11:16:57 PM 926 Views
There's generally something like a 7 or 10 year limit on credit reporting here. - 13/10/2010 11:46:58 PM 944 Views
What's the use of suing someone who has no money? *NM* - 13/10/2010 11:48:47 PM 486 Views
You can garnish their wages. - 13/10/2010 11:49:36 PM 928 Views
With parsley? - 13/10/2010 11:51:37 PM 989 Views
No, "someone" most certainly did not, wicked young Miss! Hmph! *NM* - 13/10/2010 11:52:40 PM 474 Views
If they suddenly come into some, you're entitled to it. *NM* - 14/10/2010 12:07:34 AM 552 Views
Bit of a long shot. *NM* - 14/10/2010 12:09:12 AM 419 Views
Very. Best to cover your bases though. *NM* - 14/10/2010 10:04:25 PM 443 Views
Not if the doctrine of election applies. - 14/10/2010 10:14:07 PM 900 Views
Are we not talking about credit companies going after people who owe them money? - 14/10/2010 10:18:47 PM 947 Views
Yeah, I guess we are. - 14/10/2010 10:28:40 PM 979 Views
Re: - 14/10/2010 03:09:18 AM 950 Views
I am currently in that situation... - 14/10/2010 05:03:23 AM 1050 Views
Re: I am currently in that situation... - 14/10/2010 05:49:24 PM 1262 Views
it is easy for me and others to be glib when it is just a theory *NM* - 14/10/2010 08:19:16 PM 428 Views

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