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Can't wait to see what he says about sanctity of life next time he's in TX.... Joel Send a noteboard - 07/11/2010 08:51:41 PM
However, given the Spanish current events referenced in the article, well, really, what choice did the man have? We can (and often have) debate whether homosexuality or even abortion can be reconciled with core Christian doctrine (no, this is not an invitation to reopen those debates). There's no debate on the Roman Catholic Churchs view of each, and if the Pope remained mute on both issues during an official church visit to Spain, to consecrate a church, no less, that would just be ridiculous. He's there to sanctify the church; he can't simply ignore the fact that the country in which he's doing so has within the last five years enshrined two distinct and extreme violations of church law within its secular law.

I don't know Spanish law, but it's not the US, and certainly separation of church and state is not a widely accepted policy in Vatican City. There are many legitimate discussions to be had there, too, since Spain is under no obligation to accept any papal influence over its laws (and as a foreign head of state, whether or not everyone is willing to accept that, there's strong reason NOT to allow his influence over Spanish law). The Pope retains the title of "Christs Vicar on Earth", however, and Roman Catholic canon law is quite explicit on both points. When consecrating a church in a country where profaning a Catholic sacrament is now protected by federal law it would be irresponsible not to comment on the latter.

A responsible religious leader must walk a fine line between adhering to the principles of their faith, encouraging that adherence in others, while not trying to COMPEL that adherence from anyone. Personally, I think he did OK here; the fact is anyone who denies Europe, the West in general, has become increasingly secular in the past two century or two is simply not paying attention. Beyond that he doesn't seem to have done much more than reiterate Roman Catholic disagreement with recent changes to Spanish law, prompted by said changes and their novelty.
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This message last edited by Joel on 07/11/2010 at 08:54:29 PM
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Pope criticises gay marriage and abortion at cathedral consecration in Spain - 07/11/2010 08:18:06 PM 1182 Views
Can't wait to see what he says about sanctity of life next time he's in TX.... - 07/11/2010 08:51:41 PM 1002 Views
You know, next time you tell people to not reopen certain debates... - 07/11/2010 09:28:21 PM 898 Views
Does Spain distinguish between secular and sacramental marriage? - 08/11/2010 01:10:47 AM 768 Views
I would assume so, but can't say for sure. - 08/11/2010 10:27:01 AM 704 Views
Well, that's the out then. - 08/11/2010 11:00:14 PM 773 Views
I looked it up for you both. - 09/11/2010 08:38:55 PM 711 Views
Pfft, if you trust the AMERICANS.... - 09/11/2010 08:52:58 PM 711 Views
Now that is the way to protest against the Pope. I wish people had thought of that here. *NM* - 07/11/2010 09:02:51 PM 276 Views
The girl on girl kissing? Hell, yeah. - 07/11/2010 09:23:17 PM 686 Views
Re: They're Europeans... - 07/11/2010 09:25:51 PM 692 Views
you must have the Ugly lesbian Club in your area - 07/11/2010 09:28:02 PM 729 Views
Re: you must have the Ugly lesbian Club in your area - 07/11/2010 10:05:58 PM 695 Views
she's lesbian. - 07/11/2010 10:32:37 PM 658 Views
Re: she's lesbian. - 08/11/2010 01:14:32 AM 684 Views
Referring to the 1930s and then talking of re-evangelization is a rather painful gaffe, I must say. - 07/11/2010 09:13:19 PM 680 Views
dang. how big and fancy is this cathedral going to be? *NM* - 07/11/2010 09:28:44 PM 382 Views
Uh yeah because Franco was worse than the communists.... - 08/11/2010 03:43:55 AM 654 Views
Was he worse? We'll never know, seeing how he was the one that came out on top. - 08/11/2010 10:17:10 AM 772 Views
Re: Was he worse? We'll never know, seeing how he was the one that came out on top. - 08/11/2010 03:31:45 PM 837 Views
Re: Was he worse? We'll never know, seeing how he was the one that came out on top. - 08/11/2010 10:28:01 PM 700 Views
Re: Was he worse? We'll never know, seeing how he was the one that came out on top. - 09/11/2010 10:24:38 AM 955 Views
Ah, classic communist logic. - 09/11/2010 08:17:48 PM 646 Views
No - 09/11/2010 08:20:21 PM 693 Views
Yeah, you pretty much can. - 09/11/2010 11:09:57 PM 723 Views
Re: Yeah, you pretty much can. - 09/11/2010 11:12:43 PM 790 Views
It's the wrong question to ask, however. - 13/11/2010 10:53:00 PM 853 Views
I wouldn't expect anything less of him. *NM* - 08/11/2010 02:28:36 AM 313 Views
Again: The Pope doesn't oppress anyone. - 08/11/2010 03:40:19 AM 728 Views
Awesome, except he's attacking people leaving, too. *NM* - 08/11/2010 04:30:02 AM 320 Views
I would too. - 08/11/2010 05:08:37 AM 658 Views
Yes, we know you would. *NM* - 08/11/2010 04:35:54 PM 362 Views
well fine, but you're telling them to leave, and attacking them for doing so. - 08/11/2010 07:18:45 PM 567 Views
And here come the ad hominem attacks. - 08/11/2010 09:32:23 PM 714 Views
No, it's more like a boss firing an employee and then bitching about them leaving. *NM* - 08/11/2010 10:43:56 PM 386 Views
Except we're not ordering them to leave. - 09/11/2010 12:46:46 AM 681 Views
So if you are Darth Vader, - 09/11/2010 10:19:25 AM 681 Views
I am, bitches. - 09/11/2010 03:08:26 PM 688 Views
Glad someone finally got the joke. - 09/11/2010 08:18:25 PM 875 Views
Did you hear the Church have stopped approving applications for people to officially leave, - 08/11/2010 07:13:15 PM 626 Views
lol, so they're taking notes from the LDS church now? - 08/11/2010 07:19:39 PM 553 Views
Not at all. - 08/11/2010 09:29:29 PM 651 Views
Yeah, I'm with Dragonsoul on this one - 08/11/2010 09:39:13 PM 545 Views
It makes a difference when they use your name as part of a statistic - 09/11/2010 12:28:51 AM 820 Views
Tainting Gaudi with that talk makes me a little sad - 08/11/2010 09:39:49 PM 564 Views
Agreed on both - 09/11/2010 10:18:35 AM 607 Views
Re: - 08/11/2010 11:06:50 PM 536 Views
This is funny. - 09/11/2010 08:42:52 PM 596 Views

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