Then I'm confused, either about what you believe or how you reconcile it with my second paragraph.
Joel Send a noteboard - 28/01/2011 10:54:13 PM
For convenience, here it is again:
That seems to rule out Universalism as I understand that belief, that is to say, it takes universal salvation off the table, at least potentially, because anyone can (and, I contend, someone inevitably will) refuse it, a choice God respects despite not desiring it. Again, to do otherwise would make Him a tyrant, coercing conformity with the threat of annihilation in precisely the manner you rightly cosider such literal anathema. Arguably as bad is that, even were God to offer such a choice, accepting Him on such a selfish basis is counter to the whole basis of God and thus Christianity. It's not just to allow obedience to only those rules we approve, and selfishness is not love.
God lets us accept His Grace, but He also lets us refuse it; to do otherwise would be tyrannical, which God is not. Confronting us with our need for Him in this world or another very much forces the issue; at that point whether Hell exists in any sense is largely irrelevant, because we face the undeniable fact that we depend upon God for our very existence, both its inception and its continuance. It's possible, automatic, I think, to then choose God, but for our own sake, not His, which is the wrong motive, because that's once again human oriented rather than God oriented.
That seems to rule out Universalism as I understand that belief, that is to say, it takes universal salvation off the table, at least potentially, because anyone can (and, I contend, someone inevitably will) refuse it, a choice God respects despite not desiring it. Again, to do otherwise would make Him a tyrant, coercing conformity with the threat of annihilation in precisely the manner you rightly cosider such literal anathema. Arguably as bad is that, even were God to offer such a choice, accepting Him on such a selfish basis is counter to the whole basis of God and thus Christianity. It's not just to allow obedience to only those rules we approve, and selfishness is not love.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Ted Haggard Would Be Bisexual If He Was a Hot 21-Year-Old
- 27/01/2011 05:01:12 PM
1424 Views
Not sure what the point of this post was *NM*
- 27/01/2011 06:50:59 PM
549 Views
It was something that made me laugh?
- 27/01/2011 06:53:09 PM
942 Views
yeah you were only insulting people's religion, no reason to get worked up. *NM*
- 27/01/2011 09:24:55 PM
555 Views
Er, pretty sure just laughing at what one guy said, plus a pun on the word "hard"
- 27/01/2011 09:40:29 PM
863 Views
I am an athiest so I don't care
- 27/01/2011 10:10:26 PM
937 Views
Or he'd still be closeted because of twisted, hateful strains of Christianity. *NM*
- 27/01/2011 06:56:04 PM
454 Views
If your religion states homosexuality is wrong, then it is a position of principle...
- 27/01/2011 06:59:04 PM
1013 Views
Wow, you really don't understand what it is to be human
- 27/01/2011 08:51:17 PM
919 Views
I'm sure you'll agree that a religious debate is not really called for here...
- 27/01/2011 09:10:38 PM
966 Views
Homosexuality =/= homosexual sex.
- 27/01/2011 09:16:50 PM
884 Views
Err...no.
- 27/01/2011 09:23:54 PM
1130 Views
Re: Err...no.
- 27/01/2011 09:42:00 PM
1068 Views
You seem to want to argue about what is allowed and what is not allowed...
- 27/01/2011 10:08:10 PM
953 Views
Nah, I know better than to argue with you. I just thought your phrasing was rather silly.
- 27/01/2011 10:14:50 PM
848 Views
I completely and utterly disagree
- 27/01/2011 10:39:10 PM
890 Views
The carnal nature of the flesh just happens to be the way we're all innately broken.
- 27/01/2011 11:30:09 PM
1055 Views
Replace "Christian Faith" with "hardcore Calvinism" and I'll go away.
- 28/01/2011 12:35:36 AM
852 Views
Is it possible to have faith, but not agree with your church's stance on subjects?. *NM*
- 27/01/2011 09:15:14 PM
496 Views
Of course. Faith is a broad concept. But...
- 27/01/2011 09:20:54 PM
1043 Views
I was thinking along the lines of Christans who are gay or or believe in gay rights.
- 27/01/2011 09:29:50 PM
910 Views
Well, at least you're not disputing the nature of my claim.
- 27/01/2011 10:23:24 PM
899 Views
I thought acceptance meant rejecting anything with which you're uncomfortable? 
- 27/01/2011 11:39:48 PM
1019 Views
- 27/01/2011 11:39:48 PM
1019 Views
Don't even know what that means. 
- 28/01/2011 12:31:23 AM
800 Views
- 28/01/2011 12:31:23 AM
800 Views
Actually, that first line is my problem with Universalism
- 28/01/2011 01:54:00 AM
999 Views
"Carnal flesh" is redundant, you know.
- 28/01/2011 04:27:30 AM
873 Views
- 28/01/2011 04:27:30 AM
873 Views
Point of emphasis.
- 28/01/2011 05:52:28 AM
983 Views
- 28/01/2011 05:52:28 AM
983 Views
Agreed. *NM*
- 28/01/2011 06:33:55 AM
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*NM*
- 28/01/2011 06:33:55 AM
483 Views
Then I'm confused, either about what you believe or how you reconcile it with my second paragraph.
- 28/01/2011 10:54:13 PM
1086 Views
At the risk of simplifying: All roads don't lead to Cleveland, nor do they lead to God.
- 01/02/2011 03:47:57 PM
1134 Views
...I can't believe of the three posts, this is the only one with replies
- 27/01/2011 09:48:14 PM
804 Views
It is nothing new, there are always people "who protest too much"
- 27/01/2011 10:26:49 PM
867 Views
This guy needs serious mental help, in my humble laymans opinion.
- 27/01/2011 11:42:00 PM
894 Views