Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water"
beetnemesis Send a noteboard - 11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM
Any time "holy water" is used in various rites, it's always treated with reverence, as if it has some sort of special power. Baptisms are one example, yes, but there's also dipping your fingers in the little bowl at the entrance of a church, or when a priest walks down the aisle and flings little droplets over the congregation.
Tom's explanation is "It's about making sure the individuals involved are in the right state of mind and spirit." However, if that was the case, then you wouldn't need "special" water, you could just use... water! "This water is something that we all need to live and it washes away dirt and is thus a metaphor" is a pretty simple and ubiquitous concept throughout humanity.
Basically, what does "holy water" do than "tap water" cannot? And I don't mean physically, I mean spiritually. If it's just about being in the correct frame of mind, then there's no reason it needs to be blessed, right? And it can't be to invoke God's protection or favor, because prayer is supposed to be all you need for that.
That's why I dislike the concept of holy water. It doesn't make logical sense (even within the confines of Christianity, I don't want any of that "faith isn't logical" lameness)
Oh, and I wasn't resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB," it's what I started out with.
Tom's explanation is "It's about making sure the individuals involved are in the right state of mind and spirit." However, if that was the case, then you wouldn't need "special" water, you could just use... water! "This water is something that we all need to live and it washes away dirt and is thus a metaphor" is a pretty simple and ubiquitous concept throughout humanity.
Basically, what does "holy water" do than "tap water" cannot? And I don't mean physically, I mean spiritually. If it's just about being in the correct frame of mind, then there's no reason it needs to be blessed, right? And it can't be to invoke God's protection or favor, because prayer is supposed to be all you need for that.
That's why I dislike the concept of holy water. It doesn't make logical sense (even within the confines of Christianity, I don't want any of that "faith isn't logical" lameness)
Oh, and I wasn't resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB," it's what I started out with.
I amuse myself.
A question on baptism
10/06/2011 09:21:44 AM
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To my knowledge, baptism does not stem from the Resurrection.
10/06/2011 11:01:17 AM
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What I meant
10/06/2011 11:03:08 AM
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I don't follow.
10/06/2011 11:08:07 AM
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Re: I don't follow.
10/06/2011 11:10:40 AM
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I don't keep up with RC theology much.
10/06/2011 11:15:52 AM
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Re: I don't keep up with RC theology much.
10/06/2011 11:17:53 AM
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They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
11/06/2011 10:39:26 AM
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Re: They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
11/06/2011 11:53:53 AM
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You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:50:53 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:52:27 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:55:01 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:58:36 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:16:46 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:19:16 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:25:08 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:26:30 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:28:45 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:29:43 PM
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Circumcision remains common among Christians mostly for symbolic reasons as well.
11/06/2011 10:48:48 AM
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Hm, I don't know. I don't think I know any non-Jews who are circumsized that see it as a symbol
11/06/2011 04:44:02 PM
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I took a holy dip into the Ganges
10/06/2011 11:48:26 AM
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Early Christians and Jews were obsessed with purity
10/06/2011 12:56:58 PM
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Oh, I know about the historical/academic/anthropological reason
10/06/2011 01:04:43 PM
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A first responce
10/06/2011 02:09:32 PM
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Do you want a theological answer or a historical one?
10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM
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The theological. I already had a fairly good idea of the historical
10/06/2011 03:18:51 PM
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My favorite fact about baptism is that is REQUIRES water... but it can be ANY water
10/06/2011 04:31:12 PM
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That is absurd.
10/06/2011 08:37:13 PM
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It is absurd
10/06/2011 08:56:19 PM
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When your post is eviscerated, resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB" isn't a winning move.
10/06/2011 10:00:39 PM
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Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water"
11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM
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The point is that it's a symbol.
11/06/2011 04:45:19 AM
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I have no problem with water as a symbol
11/06/2011 04:59:52 AM
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You are totally missing the point.
11/06/2011 02:46:08 PM
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Which again, is something that sounds nice and spiritual, but doesn't actually make any sense
11/06/2011 03:46:51 PM
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your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion
11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM
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I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean"
11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM
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Beliefs about holy water are internally logical.
11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM
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Shrug. It was on topic.
11/06/2011 08:06:16 PM
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The more I read of your posts, the more I think you fundamentally misunderstand religious symbolism. *NM*
11/06/2011 10:51:17 PM
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Let me clarify: your statements are absurd.
10/06/2011 10:14:06 PM
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Check my response to Ghav for elaboration, but basically, your argument doesn't hold
11/06/2011 04:00:18 AM
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You went from saying spit was good to saying "clean water".
12/06/2011 02:04:26 AM
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I'm completely consistent. I was just staying away from extremes for conversation's sake.
12/06/2011 09:02:02 AM
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No one from a respectable faith thinks of holy water as "magic water". Period. *NM*
13/06/2011 04:56:53 AM
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All I know, Is a Lutheran Pastor told me, b/c i was not baptised I was going to hell, and had *NM*
11/06/2011 03:44:38 PM
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I never thought of it in that way, that is why I like this site
*NM*
12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM
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