My issue is that all the things that "holy water" is supposed to symbolize are the same things that regular water symbolizes.
So, if it's just a symbol, then that means it's your frame of mind that matters. If you're about to bless yourself with holy water and pray to God, it's not going to be somehow a less effective prayer if a dastardly villain has swapped out a bottle of Evian into the font. As long as you're in a prayerful state of mind, that's what counts- the water supposedly just helps you get there.
So if it's not the physical substance, but the state of mind that's important, then it follows that the physical substance is NOT important. That is, if you can achieve the same sincere, prayerful state of mind with some beads, some music, or a cup of Ramen, then everything should be just as good.
So. Now we know that the physical substance doesn't matter- all that matters is that it gets you into the right frame of mind. Holy water makes one think of purity, of life, of being refreshed. So does regular water.
Therefore, there's no reason why "normal" water (that is, not water that has been shit in, Ghav) couldn't be used in whatever rites supposedly demand "holy" water.
(Now, this all falls apart if you say that the physical substance does have some importance. But if that's the case, then we're back to "magic water," that is, water that has special properties that regular water does not.)
So, if it's just a symbol, then that means it's your frame of mind that matters. If you're about to bless yourself with holy water and pray to God, it's not going to be somehow a less effective prayer if a dastardly villain has swapped out a bottle of Evian into the font. As long as you're in a prayerful state of mind, that's what counts- the water supposedly just helps you get there.
So if it's not the physical substance, but the state of mind that's important, then it follows that the physical substance is NOT important. That is, if you can achieve the same sincere, prayerful state of mind with some beads, some music, or a cup of Ramen, then everything should be just as good.
So. Now we know that the physical substance doesn't matter- all that matters is that it gets you into the right frame of mind. Holy water makes one think of purity, of life, of being refreshed. So does regular water.
Therefore, there's no reason why "normal" water (that is, not water that has been shit in, Ghav) couldn't be used in whatever rites supposedly demand "holy" water.
(Now, this all falls apart if you say that the physical substance does have some importance. But if that's the case, then we're back to "magic water," that is, water that has special properties that regular water does not.)
I amuse myself.
A question on baptism
10/06/2011 09:21:44 AM
- 970 Views
To my knowledge, baptism does not stem from the Resurrection.
10/06/2011 11:01:17 AM
- 714 Views
What I meant
10/06/2011 11:03:08 AM
- 558 Views
I don't follow.
10/06/2011 11:08:07 AM
- 538 Views
Re: I don't follow.
10/06/2011 11:10:40 AM
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I don't keep up with RC theology much.
10/06/2011 11:15:52 AM
- 563 Views
Re: I don't keep up with RC theology much.
10/06/2011 11:17:53 AM
- 525 Views
They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
11/06/2011 10:39:26 AM
- 624 Views
Re: They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
11/06/2011 11:53:53 AM
- 550 Views
You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:50:53 AM
- 558 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:52:27 AM
- 499 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:55:01 AM
- 562 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:58:36 AM
- 527 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:16:46 PM
- 676 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:19:16 PM
- 529 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:25:08 PM
- 736 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:26:30 PM
- 732 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:28:45 PM
- 538 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:29:43 PM
- 561 Views
Circumcision remains common among Christians mostly for symbolic reasons as well.
11/06/2011 10:48:48 AM
- 615 Views
Hm, I don't know. I don't think I know any non-Jews who are circumsized that see it as a symbol
11/06/2011 04:44:02 PM
- 696 Views
I took a holy dip into the Ganges
10/06/2011 11:48:26 AM
- 627 Views
Early Christians and Jews were obsessed with purity
10/06/2011 12:56:58 PM
- 663 Views
Oh, I know about the historical/academic/anthropological reason
10/06/2011 01:04:43 PM
- 600 Views
A first responce
10/06/2011 02:09:32 PM
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Do you want a theological answer or a historical one?
10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM
- 700 Views
The theological. I already had a fairly good idea of the historical
10/06/2011 03:18:51 PM
- 570 Views
My favorite fact about baptism is that is REQUIRES water... but it can be ANY water
10/06/2011 04:31:12 PM
- 654 Views
That is absurd.
10/06/2011 08:37:13 PM
- 750 Views
It is absurd
10/06/2011 08:56:19 PM
- 568 Views
When your post is eviscerated, resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB" isn't a winning move.
10/06/2011 10:00:39 PM
- 679 Views
Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water"
11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM
- 521 Views
The point is that it's a symbol.
11/06/2011 04:45:19 AM
- 539 Views
I have no problem with water as a symbol
11/06/2011 04:59:52 AM
- 607 Views
You are totally missing the point.
11/06/2011 02:46:08 PM
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Which again, is something that sounds nice and spiritual, but doesn't actually make any sense
11/06/2011 03:46:51 PM
- 656 Views
your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion
11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM
- 927 Views
I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean"
11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM
- 551 Views
Beliefs about holy water are internally logical.
11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM
- 606 Views
Shrug. It was on topic.
11/06/2011 08:06:16 PM
- 875 Views
The more I read of your posts, the more I think you fundamentally misunderstand religious symbolism. *NM*
11/06/2011 10:51:17 PM
- 238 Views
Let me clarify: your statements are absurd.
10/06/2011 10:14:06 PM
- 574 Views
Check my response to Ghav for elaboration, but basically, your argument doesn't hold
11/06/2011 04:00:18 AM
- 559 Views
You went from saying spit was good to saying "clean water".
12/06/2011 02:04:26 AM
- 502 Views
I'm completely consistent. I was just staying away from extremes for conversation's sake.
12/06/2011 09:02:02 AM
- 536 Views
No one from a respectable faith thinks of holy water as "magic water". Period. *NM*
13/06/2011 04:56:53 AM
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All I know, Is a Lutheran Pastor told me, b/c i was not baptised I was going to hell, and had *NM*
11/06/2011 03:44:38 PM
- 213 Views
I never thought of it in that way, that is why I like this site
*NM*
12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM
- 255 Views
