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Re: Cool. Isaac Send a noteboard - 14/09/2011 11:47:33 PM
Petroleum is a good fuel because it stores well, burns well and simply, and is plentiful, while it is much better than ethanol in terms of energy per unit mass it isn't the peak and is somewhat false in that respect... you don't really get 3-4 miles off a pound of gasoline, you get 3-4 miles off a pound of gasoline and a pound of oxygen. Hydrogen gets about 140 Megajoueles per kilogram whereas most petroleum products do about 40-50 MJ/kg, Fat comes in around 40 MJ/kg itself, firewood, carbs, protein all come in around 20 MJ/kg, batteries tend to do about 2-10 MJ/kg... gunpowder is actually only around 3 MJ/kg but is handy because it burns very, very fast... uranium is 20,000,000 MJ/kg, fusion does a good deal better and anti-matter 180,000,000,000 MJ/kg

I had never seen those actual numbers before. Nifty.


Not many have, though I've posted them up a few times while ranting at people about excessive expectations with alternative energy and/or space travel. Google 'energy density' if you're interested in more.

No, a cylinder's more efficient for getting a symmetric burn on rocket fuel and there's only so many shapes that are structural sound and minimize the mass/surface area of an object. That's about the only reason rockets tend to be cylindrical.

Do they take aerodynamics into account when designing these things, or is it such a relatively small opposing force compared to gravity that they don't really care?


Aerodynamics is definitely a factor but that whole game changes once you get up above around 35,000 feet, which is about 1 minute into a shuttle launch IIRC. Keep in mind that a spear, the basic design for rockets and missile, is basically a cylinder, and spears, arrows, etc have been used for millenia because the desing is fairly aerodynamic.

That's like saying knife or kettle technology has increased at a snail's pace. Rocket's are comparatively simple devices, just like guns or cars or knives they are so immediately practical that once you have them you max out the design pretty quickly because it's important. Radio hasn't improved much since it was invented either, just minor tweaks or taking advantage of computers.

I meant for space flight, not for rocket design. It would be nice to see a faster progression in space flight and space exploration and getting people into space. Even though I'm sure the list of constraining factors is enormous, it's still hard not to have the sense that we could do better if we really wanted to.


Well, that's the problem, the list of constraining factors isn't enormous at all and we really can't do better if we really wanted to. A rocket is a pretty simple device using a principal the same as a kettle really, which is why I mentioned it. We need a better fuel, or we need better robots, that's why I'm always cynical whenever anyone on the site gets nostalgic for moon landings. With chemical rockets the only way to go further is to go bigger, we've basically maxed out that tech and now just make little semi-related improvements. With a kettle over a fire, if you want to boil water faster your only option is to make a kettle out of a material that can handle more heat, the tech's basically maxed out for any major improvement, along comes a microwave where you can basically blow massive amounts of power directly into the water without the container having to absorb and release it first, so it's faster because it uses a different way of getting the energy into the water. We can't go much further with chemical rockets, because basic chemistry puts some restrictions on how much energy a chemical reaction can produce per mass, our rocket design is already about as good as it gets, it's our fuel that's the limiting factor.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
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NASA unveils new spaceflight rocket - 14/09/2011 07:50:09 PM 700 Views
I wanted to be happy but I have to say I am a little sad. - 14/09/2011 08:48:53 PM 253 Views
I hear ya. - 14/09/2011 09:25:38 PM 231 Views
I have to agree - 14/09/2011 10:05:08 PM 245 Views
Uh huh. - 14/09/2011 10:11:09 PM 228 Views
That's a nucear thermal rocket - 14/09/2011 11:07:02 PM 328 Views
they did look at using nukes to launch a space ship - 15/09/2011 03:48:32 AM 384 Views
It does say in the article ... - 14/09/2011 10:20:19 PM 273 Views
We don't use petroleum in most rockets and never have used them much - 14/09/2011 10:53:14 PM 253 Views
Cool. - 14/09/2011 11:04:39 PM 237 Views
Re: Cool. - 14/09/2011 11:47:33 PM 384 Views
ah fair enough about the fuel - 14/09/2011 10:57:30 PM 268 Views
I guess it could come for oil but it doesn't have to - 15/09/2011 03:45:02 AM 197 Views
Cracking water into H2 and O2 takes a lot of energy - 15/09/2011 05:33:48 AM 275 Views
I was hoping for something Enterprise-shaped. *NM* - 14/09/2011 10:55:41 PM 105 Views
You too? *NM* - 14/09/2011 11:31:06 PM 122 Views
Hi Guys! - 15/09/2011 01:44:13 AM 497 Views
Re: Hi Guys! - 15/09/2011 02:07:11 AM 352 Views
Oh cool!! - 15/09/2011 04:07:13 AM 372 Views
Re: Oh cool!! - 15/09/2011 05:28:31 AM 358 Views
do you really believe a space elevator is doable with current materials? - 15/09/2011 05:45:01 AM 233 Views
No - 15/09/2011 12:30:51 PM 227 Views
I can't even imagine you guys out at NASA must feel - 15/09/2011 02:59:18 PM 252 Views

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